3 Things You Didn’t (Want To) Know About Nelson Mandela

Lee Jenkins June 27, 2013 1,279
3 Things You Didn’t (Want To) Know About Nelson Mandela

The hero of the anti-apartheid struggle was not the saint we want him to be.

The image of Nelson Mandela as a selfless, humble, freedom fighter turned cheerful, kindly old man, is well established in the West. If there is any international leader on whom we can universally heap praise it is surely he. But get past the halo we’ve placed on him without his permission, and Nelson Mandela had more than a few flaws which deserve attention.

He signed off on the deaths of innocent people, lots of them

Nelson Mandela was the head of UmKhonto we Sizwe, (MK), the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party. At his trial, he had pleaded guilty to 156 acts of public violence including mobilising terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station. Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed by Nelson Mandela’s MK terrorists. Here are some highlights

-Church Street West, Pretoria, on the 20 May 1983

-Amanzimtoti Shopping complex KZN, 23 December 1985

-Krugersdorp Magistrate’s Court, 17 March 1988

-Durban Pick ‘n Pay shopping complex, 1 September 1986

-Pretoria Sterland movie complex 16 April 1988 – limpet mine killed ANC terrorist M O Maponya instead

-Johannesburg Magistrate’s Court, 20 May 1987

-Roodepoort Standard Bank 3 June, 1988

Tellingly, not only did Mandela refuse to renounce violence, Amnesty refused to take his case stating “[the] movement recorded that it could not give the name of ‘Prisoner of Conscience’ to anyone associated with violence, even though as in ‘conventional warfare’ a degree of restraint may be exercised.”

 

 As President he bought a lot of military hardware

Inheriting a country with criminally deep socio-ecnomic problems, one might expect resources to be poured into redressing the imbalances of apartheid. Yet once in office, even Mandela’s government slipped into the custom of putting national corporatism, power and prestige above its people. Deputy Minister of Defence Ronnie Kasrils said in 1995 that the government’s planned cuts in defence spending could also result in the loss of as many as 90,000 jobs in defence-related industries.

Mandela’s government announced in November 1998 that it intended to purchase 28 BAE/SAAB JAS 39 Gripen fighter aircraft from Sweden at a cost of R10.875 billion, i.e. R388 million (about US$65 million) per plane. Clearly, the all-powerful air armadas of Botswana weighed heavily on the minds of South African leaders…

Not content with jets, in 1999 a US$4.8 billion (R30 billion in 1999 rands) purchase of weaponry was finalised, which has been subject to allegations of corruption. The South African Department of Defence’s Strategic Defence Acquisition purchased a slew of shiny new weapons, including frigates, submarines, corvettes, light utility helicopters, fighter jet trainers and advanced light fighter aircraft.

Below are some of the purchases made, presumably to keep the expansionist intentions of Madagascar at bay…

 

Description

Original Qty

Illustrative total cost

Corvettes

4

R4 billion

Maritime helicopter for corvettes

5

R1 billion

New submarines to replace Daphne

4

R5,5 billion

Alouette helicopter replacement

60

R2 billion

Advanced light fighter

48

R6-9 billion

Main Battle Tank replacement of Olifant

154

R6 billion

Total cost in 1998 Rand

R25-38 billion

 

Mandela was friendly with dictators

Despite being synonymous with freedom and democracy, Mandela was never afraid to glad hand the thugs and tyrants of the international arena.

General Sani Abacha seized power in Nigeria in a military coup in November 1993. From the start of his presidency, in May 1994, Nelson Mandela refrained from publicly condemning Abacha’s actions. Up until the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in November 1995 the ANC government vigorously opposed the imposition of sanctions against Nigeria. Shortly before the meeting Mandela’s spokesman, Parks Mankahlana, said that “quiet persuasion” would yield better results than coercion. Even after the Nigerian government announced the death sentences against Saro-Wiwa and eight other Ogoni activists, during the summit, Mandela refused to condemn the Abacha regime or countenance the imposition of sanctions.

Two of the ANC’s biggest donors, in the 1990s, were Colonel Muammar Gaddafi of Libya and President Suharto of Indonesia . Not only did Mandela refrain from criticising their lamentable human rights records but he interceded diplomatically on their behalf, and awarded them South Africa ‘s highest honour. Suharto was awarded a state visit, a 21-gun salute, and The Order of Good Hope (gold class).

In April 1999 Mandela acknowledged to an audience in Johannesburg that Suharto had given the ANC a total of 60 million dollars. An initial donation of 50 million dollars had been followed up by a further 10 million. The Telegraph ( London ) reported that Gaddafi was known to have given the ANC well over ten million dollars.

 

The apartheid regime was a crime against humanity; as illogical as it was cruel.  It is tempting, therefore, to simplify the subject by declaring that all who opposed it were wholly and unswervingly good. It’s important to remember, however, that Mandela has been the first to hold his hands up to his shortcomings and mistakes. In books and speeches, he goes to great length to admit his errors. The real tragedy is that too many in the West can’t bring themselves to see what the great man himself has said all along; that he’s just as flawed as the rest of us, and should not be put on a pedestal.

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  • Suzanne

    Controversial view…classic question of freedom fighter/terrorist. Admire your boldness but suspect you’ll get a lot of comments to the contrary. Still, if a writer doesn’t stir up passion one way or another, you’ve failed

    • Craig Yates

      Those who admire Mandela are as sick as those who admire Breivik. Both fight evil and killed innocent children in their fight without a second thought.

      • mc yolo

        but what do you expect war will always kill innocent children and women……tell me since when war hasn’t have casualties?

        • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

          it is not a matter of when war has not killed children and women; it is the falsehood that Mandela is some kind of peace making God who did nothing but good in his life whilst ignoring his terrorist behavior that resulted in the murdering of many.

          Then we move to the tens of thousands murdered under his Presidency that he turned a blind eye to an permitted to take place.

          The facade of a man who won a Nobel Peace prize after killing and being responsible for the killing of many.

        • Ofnir

          War has always caused collateral damage. That damage is always a tragedy, but becomes evil when it’s intentionally targeted. In his terrorist days, Mandela intentionally targeted soft civilian targets. The court building is a government building, but usually staffed and visited by a large bunch of civilians, so is questionable on moral validity. A lot of the rest of the target list above is purely civilian.

          It’s the same way with the PLO (“Let’s storm a school bus and set of suicide bombs made of shrapnel and rat poison to kill the maximum number of people who don’t have any say at all in our conflict and who haven’t actually done anything to us!”).

        • Scott

          Planting a nail bomb in a supermarket isn’t war, it’s murder. Cold blooded murder.

      • PFunk

        WHAT? Breivik = Mandela? Are you insane? Breivik was motivated by racial hatred. Mandela was motivated to be freed from oppression.

        What oppression is there in Norway again white people?

        • J Simson

          You will find Sharia imposed by Muslims more oppressive than Apartheid. For Non-Muslims

          • JSal

            & the Tinfoil hat goes to…

  • David McNeilage

    Good article. The misconceptions about South Africa and Mandela are vast. The ANC is corrupt to the core and every bit as racist as the National Party they replaced. South African Airways on behest of the Government recently ran a job advert with the ending tag line “whites need not apply” In the north of the country, farmers are having their land and homes repossed by the state and in some cases are being murdered for no other reason than they are white. South Africa is a Zimbabwe waiting to happen.

    Personally, I’ll mourn FW de Klerk when he dies and will remain as ever, glad to be an ex-South African.

    • William Henry Bowen

      David, I have friends that are native South Africans and they have said the exact same thing to me. All 3 of them tell me how grateful they are having be able to escape to the U.S.

      • Whoohaa123

        Unfortunately for the U.S. there has been a mass influx of racist SA assholes since the end of apartheid. Hopefully they will die off will all the American racist assholes or maybe they can be deported back to SA with all their racist BS.

        • deadrebel

          Not all South Africans are racist. To say so is ironically xenophobic.

          • DanielHilliard

            did he say all S. African are racist? Or are you being stupid? He said there has been a mass influx of racist South Africans. IE… the racist ones are the ones fleeing South Africa now. He did not say that all South African are racist. Read harder.

          • J Simson

            The ones who stay have no personal security and no hope of getting a job.

            But to think of leaving to country where whites do not have fight a quota system against them must be racist.

        • ttyler5

          I’ve flagged your vapid and foul-mouthed comment. You are certainly a bigot with nothing to add to an intelligent discussion.

        • truth

          I am an American. Because of a biased media, there seems to be a misconception by many, even in the U.S, about racism. Black people are the least tolerant of all people. They are very rude, and every race is supposed to be okay with it because of their history.

          The media only reports the few instances of white on black crime, but have a hard time reporting black on white crime. When they do, they tone it down. There has been a problem over the last 3 years with knockout games. Blacks randomly trying to punch someone out in one hit, it has caused a few deaths.

          You can watch videos on youtube. When the media has to talk about a growing story like this, they will say it’s TEENS who are doing it, and CNN even had a video asking if the knockout games are a myth.

          If these were instances of white people hitting black, the world would cry blood murder. It is a double standard. Black people are profiled in America for a reason, they commit so many crimes. They need not worry about whites raping their women, robbing their homes, or robbing them. Blacks are profiling blacks now.

          Even in nice neighborhoods, blacks often form popular gangs like bloods and crips and emulate their favorite rappers. Growing up in a suburban area next to a military base, it was very diverse. Almost every black person who I grew up with spent time in jail or are in jail for crimes they are guilty of.

          • HonkyHater

            You are a fucking idiot.

          • J Simson

            Indeed. Any mention of Black on white crime is pure idiocy. Let’s look the other while noble black freedom fighters knock out racist white males. They obviously deserve it.

          • Murtud Lubadus

            Hehe, the truth hurts, eh?

          • Murtud Lubadus

            Your forum name describes the problem with your ilk. You are a disgrace to your own race.

          • JSal

            The new Republican party – It’s always someone else’s fault. It’s the lame stream media. What can I whine about today? Bring up the constitution even though you don’t know what it says or means. Hate immigrants even though we are a country of immigrants. Repress the vote because the majority of the country doesn’t agree with us. Have absolutely no solutions to anything except privatize everything. Blame others for their own policies & fiscal irresponsibilities. Vote against their own ideas. Watch Fox news & nothing else. A party of whining, victimized, paranoid cry babies.

          • truth

            I want to go on record to saying I am not a Republican or a Democrat. I find that the two parties do nothing to America but separate us. Also, I am a minority.(Not black, just a weird combination one would not expect. Half of which is Asian, I was an army brat.)

            I do not care for Fox News, CNN, or anything in the mainstream media. They cherry pick what they publish and in the end, they’re mostly giving the people PR articles instead of real journalism.

            As a military brat who has lived in red and blue states, people have more in common then they have differences. They all celebrate Thanksgiving the same way, all act like boneheads on Black Friday, all work together, enjoy the same sports. Our country somehow created two parties and again, it just divided the people! I am not sure how people are not understanding this. Every election we really only have a chance of A or B winning. I have come to hate both A and B, and now I don’t vote.

            What is the point? Politicians are career liars and they look after their own party’s agenda, even if it is not always in the best interest of the American people. Our media makes sure to give the spot light on the candidates they would like to win. I think in the future, people will look back at this time in America and see how skewed our Democracy really is.

          • JSal

            I think the party system is BS also, but it is all we have & to say there is no distinction between the 2 parties (especially in today’s political environment) is a cop out. Some of the founders of this country did not believe in political parties. The supreme court seems to think that money is free speech & is populated by corporatists. I guess the more money you have the more free speech you get. They call themselves strict constitutionalists? Only one party keeps telling us that corporations are people too.

        • J Simson

          Being white automatically means you are racist?

          Are blacks superior to white and incapable of being racist?

          • V the K

            Yes, it does. Martin Bashir said so and Rachel Maddow agrees.

          • J Simson

            :)

          • Blackened144

            That sounds like the “logic” they use to try to lower standards for minorities. Somehow the fact that they all think the minorities are too stupid to handle the regular standards is somehow, not racist.

    • DrPhuckyPhd

      And white managerial and professional types have been leaving South Africa as rapidly as they can get out with their families. I know several who have already left South Africa, and others who are planning on leaving. The reason? . . . South Africa law decrees that white males must be placed at the bottom of the Hire Lists for government jobs as well as Hire Lists for non-government jobs. Whites can NOT get jobs in their native land of South Africa because of the laws passed by Mandela’s African National Congress. Not only is South Africa a Zimbabwe waiting to happen but, also, the United States is a South Africa waiting to happen . . . if you are white.

      • Terry Renehan

        To DrPhuckyPhd Thank you for your eulogy on the Late Nelson Mandela Figerpointing is always present when men or women of note are lauded and your post is a welcome relief. When we are challenged by heavy responsibility for others we are compelled to take actions or form alliances which are personally repugnant to us. These will generally come back to haunt us. God is our judge No sin can be rationalised or justified However South Africa and the world have much to thank Mandela for his great courage and resolve in overcoming the terror that plagued his people.

        • J Simson

          Does a poor black man in Soweta have more or less opportunities today than before?

          Has the ANC bettered the lives of the people of SA? Or have the simply replaced the Afrikaners?

          • Murtud Lubadus

            NO! They have only lined their own pockets and those of their communist cronies.

          • CoweringCoward

            You aren’t to EVER look at results, not with “good” to be done.

          • Terry Renehan

            J Simson I dont know the current situation. I do know of the persecution prior to the ANC’s uprising. I pray they are now free from oppression.

      • whoohaa123

        Unfortunately for the U.S. there has been a mass influx of racist SA assholes since the end of apartheid. Hopefully they will die off will all the American racist assholes or maybe they can be deported back to SA with all their racist BS

        • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

          “The source is none other than the Human Right Commission submitted as evidence to the TRC in 1997.

          The
          statistics they proffered relate to the number of blacks killed between
          the years 1948 up to the election in 1994. The total number of blacks
          killed were 21 000. That falls quite a bit short of 30 000 but wait, it
          gets more interesting. It’s not the full story.

          The
          HRC report also makes a distinction between two periods. One from 1948
          till 1989 and the next from 1990 to the election in 1994. The number
          killed for the period from 1948 until 1989 is 7 000. A helluva lot less
          than 30 000 wouldn’t you think?

          That
          means the number killed from 1990 to 1994 which is AFTER the unbanning
          of the ANC and for all intents and purposes apartheid had ended is a
          whopping 14 000, involving mostly black on black violence between the
          ANC and the IFP and various other factions! Not whitey’s fault.

          Of
          the 14 000 killed during those 4 years, 92% of deaths were caused by
          blacks killing blacks. Only 5.6% were attributed to the Security Forces
          at the time and usually in retaliation to attacks initiated by the
          ANC/UDF that had been unbanned. Remember Ciskei? The difference in % is
          due to unknown causes.

          What
          this means is that during the apartheid reign of 41 years, 7 000 blacks
          died compared to double the amount of dead in just 4 years! Let me
          break it down yet further, 170 blacks were killed as a result of
          apartheid ANNUALLY. That’s 170 people per year! That’s the HRC figures
          people! Sounds like an insignificant number now doesn’t it? Contrast
          that with over 200 white farmers dying annually since 1994.

          More
          blacks then were killed under De Klerk’s ‘new’ anti-apartheid
          government of 4 years than in 41 years of government under full blown
          apartheid! How good was the propaganda of the anti-apartheid movement
          eh?!”….. and NO, this is not to make light of deaths of any persons,
          ever…. just pointing out the FACTS, something one does not get to
          erase or ignore because it is not politically correct.

          • eyezee

            Right… and you believe that shit

          • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

            prove it wrong then…… you do not just get to say “lie” or “wrong” and then offer NOTHING to prove your stance.

            Prove it wrong!

          • JSal

            Prove what you are saying is right. Follow you’re own advice.

          • J Simson

            Try not to confuse liberals with facts.

            White males are all racists and must be expelled banned and murdered. It is the progressive and liberal thing to do.

      • DanielHilliard

        AWWWWW!!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! IT’S NOT FAIR!!!!!!!!! THEY’RE TREATING US NOWHERE AS BADLY AS WE TREATED THEM FOR DECADES….. AND WE DON’T LIKE IT!!!!! YOU FUCKING CRY BABIES.

        • laura

          Daniel, You do realize African americans are free to apply for government positions..such as PRESIDENCY right?. They aren’t denied anything. Why should whites? OH THATS RIGHT because of something that happened a long time ago that anyone living today had nothing to do with. You think that justifies it? That its fair for whites to be treated poorly because of it? and complaining about that makes those people having to leave their country cry babies??…..Slavery wasn’t MY fault or theirs. Don’t be an idiot,

          • Nikki

            I have to vastly disagree its still very hard for a lot of African Americans. They’re still not treated as equal to Caucasians in a lot of the states in America. So while they have
            all the sane “rights” for some it doesn’t feel that way.

          • J Simson

            How is that? They have black president. Multi Millionaire athletes and musicians.

            I don’t buy that whining poor African Americans are discriminated against.

          • Jetblakc

            Stop and frisk. Getting pulled over for nothing. Institutionalized racism. Just because a few people have “made it” doesn’t mean that everything is equal for everyone. “They have a black President”, indeed. How does that stop me from getting pulled over just because I happen to have a white girl riding in my backseat?

          • DavidR

            I agree that everything is not the way it should be. But it goes both ways. Racism is not a one-way street, and only when we realize that will both sides begin to move forward together and end these unnecessary and ridiculous debates. And just like many white Americans are still prejudice against blacks, similarly many black Americans are prejudice against whites. Although this is the case for some (if not many), this does not mean that we should generalize and say that an entire race still has these views. I know the original post was about SA, so sorry if I’ve upset anyone with this post :)

          • oldgeezer62

            The one thing so far removed from this discussion is the real problem in both America and Africa and that is CULTURE. We live in a world of conflicting cultures, which can only be solved by one side giving up their culture and adapting the culture of the other. In America, cultures are amalgamating into a new variety of cultures with less emphasis upon religious based morals, relative morality or superiority of the individual over the needs of others. Tragically, this movement away from growth, capitalism and full employment falls at the feet of an African generation demanding rights which involve the destruction of American basic morality prior to the black influx into political spheres. Is South Africa achieving growth better under the AFNC than it did under the Beers or European scopes of cultural advancement? That’s the real question. There has never been an issue of equality, it has always been a question of cultural superiority and social control. Individualized racism has nothing to do with anything but an effort to either develop a stronger culture or control the political landscape.

          • SomeGalNTx

            What you say is true. When does it end? Do we eventually get to the point where we collectively say NO MORE or do the sides just keep switching, as in chess?
            Everyone is capable of racial hatred. It isn’t confined to just Caucasians.
            There will never be enough revenge, apologies or anything of that lot to compensate for the horrible wrongs of the past. But at some point, every past has to become a closed chapter, so a new book can be started.

          • JSal

            It’s the power structure that matters. I think you are confusing power structure with “regular people”.

          • DaWholeTruth

            Depends….are you pimpin’ her out?

          • SomeGalNTx

            Do you think you are alone? Hispanics in South Texas get pulled over because they might be illegal. They were running checkpoints in the bar areas here, where they pulled people over they thought might be drunk. I was on my way home from WORK. THAT’s why I looked tired.
            Not everything is race based. And not everything is FAIR. But keeping a chip on your shoulder about it is only going to make you ANGRY and keep you unhappy. In the end, it is YOUR choice to make.

          • JSal

            Those laws were all passed by a conservative legislature. FREEDOM!

          • SomeGalNTx

            Conservative legislature? Really? Where?
            Oh you mean the ones that are slowly eroding our rights to privacy, by condoning checkpoints, and then turning around and saying that it is racist to ask for an ID to VOTE?
            No…that would be the LIBERALS. Conservatives tend to believe in CONSTITUTIONAL freedom.

          • JSal

            Really? Texas’ legislature is now a majority progressive body? The right to vote is not in the Constitution? What evidence do you have that there is a high rate of corruption in the voting process? All research says you are wrong. Another made up crisis. Pulling over Hispanics is not a Federal Law, those are enacted by State Legislature. Of course no one believes in the constitution except Conservatives. For some, at least the parts they like or take out of context. I believe in the right to vote. I don’t believe roadblocks should be put up for any citizen of this country to vote. Since a State requires an ID to vote…shouldn’t they be responsible for issuing that ID to registered voters or upon registration? These people are already registered to vote. Or do you think there should be a fee for the CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to vote.

            Texas Senate:
            Republican: 19
            Democrat: 12

            Texas House of Rep:
            Republican: 95
            Democrat: 55

            Checkpoints USA:
            http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/checkpoint_laws.html

          • james

            i wonder if this will help you………….try putting on a suit ,keeping your pants off the ground , getting all the tattoos removed off your neck , being a father to your children ,remove all window tint ,keeping a job for more that a few month,do away with all gang affiliation and thugism , don’t do drugs ,and you might find that this will work .the police are just doing there job for you and the safety of those around you. when i was young back in the 70′s we got pulled over ,because we had long hair, and strange smells coming out of are cars …… also check you tail lights and head lights , turn signals ,tags in order? don’t give em a reason . i promise if you do this i wont happen to you anymore most of all be a real man . may try going to church , and keeping out of bad neighborhoods ,where there is known drug active

          • catadawg

            What is the crime rate in black communities compared to white communities? Instead of bitching about how the black American are mistreated, why not step up and speak out against those of your race that are acting like the idiots, causing innocents blacks to be stereotyped? It is easier to follow A l Sharpton and cry about the darkness than be like Bill Cosby and light a candle.

          • Leroy Jenkins

            LOL – spoken like a true jew.

          • DanielHilliard

            And I don’t buy that your whining retarded ass is being discriminated against either because SA has had a white president and many wealthy whites live in South Africa. Point made on both sides… now shut the f**k up and stop crying about being discriminated against. You whiney little f*ck.

          • glebealyth

            Would you have said that to a black man complaining about
            being discriminated against, Daniel?

            If not, why not?

          • curri

            You’re delusional.

          • Roger Alan Miller

            And you’re a liberal. Name calling is your only comment with no facts to back it up. If that’s all you got, why post?

          • Roger Alan Miller

            The inequality at this point is due to a vast difference in opinion between the typical Caucasian and the typical African American. The typical African American feels the Government owes them for something that happened almost 150 years ago. Those who have chose to educate themselves and have the necessary drive and ambition have no problem succeeding. It seems that now there is, with the quota system in place and fewer jobs around, Reverse discrimination. White males in the US are passed over for the “token minority” in jobs they usually are less qualified for. I hear more black hatred of whites than I have ever heard of white’s hatred of blacks. But, If an African American hates white people he’s “pro affirmative action” , where if a Caucasian hates African Americans he’s a racist. See the double standard? Didn’t think so!

          • SomeGalNTx

            I am not responsible for the way one “feels” unless I make a direct, active action to treat someone as an inferior.
            Remember…
            “No one can make you feel inferior, without your consent”
            -Eleanor Roosevelt
            If the man down the street has down something horrible, why does it fall upon my doorstep to correct the wrong? At some point, people will have to say, “that guy is a bloody idiot” and just walk away, head held high, as they know who they *really are.

          • DAMIR NARKOMANOVIĆ

            ANYONE CAN APPLY FOR PRESIDENT IN USA EVEN MONKEY IF ROTSCHILD WANTS IT….

          • John

            Well Damir, why don’t you disclose your nationality so I can tell you all the ways living in the US is better?…

          • Dean Carroll

            That’s a dangerous gamble. He could be Swiss.

          • glebealyth

            Or Kenyan and born in Hawaii, maybe.
            Just sayin’
            ;o))

          • the one

            lol :-)

          • snape

            Barry Sortoreo

          • glebealyth

            Dat de man.

          • Jeske Solutions

            * Barry Soetoro

          • Al Catraz

            Marxo-Fascist born in Kenya — more likely!

          • toffendask

            Or scandinavian, or Canadian. Or from any EU country. Or maybe John never left the US? Knowing only 5% of the US population own a passport that would be a good guess.

          • Good one random guy

            You have your facts wrong about the percent of US citizens with a passport. You shouldn’t rely on memes to provide you with statistics about, well, anything.

          • walter

            Swiss??? wow wow… wait a moment… Im not Swiss but living in this country for a long time now and they are the less racist people I know

          • Dean Carroll

            Great. Whats your point?

          • Cyclops

            Oprah might disagree…….

          • glebealyth

            Since when did Oprah’s opinion count for anything among thinking people?

          • bobfairlane

            Since she got her own TV show, a lot of buzzbrains started listening to her.

          • Steve

            I’d suggest doing a little reading on Swiss anti-semitism. Try looking up Swiss refuses to return Nazi gold.

          • Cliff

            That’s not anti-semitism, That’s just greed.

          • john smith

            I don’t think they were implying that the Swiss are racist, but that it is a better place to live. I mean isn’t it the #1 ranked place to live in the World?

          • Al Catraz

            Damir Narkomanovic’ –
            Ain’t a Swiss name…
            Narkomanovic means SON OF A NARKOMAN — LOL

          • toffendask

            Go on mate, pick any nationality. and then tell us how the US is better.

          • Rick Harrison

            He probably is from the USA. Immigration around the world is out of hand. Call me a racist, fascist or whatever you please but I will not care.

          • VLATO KOPITAR

            ROTHCHILDS – IST JUDE/ JUDISCH- THEY CAN DO ANYTHING – THEY’RE LIKE THOSE FUCKIN GOD DAMNED SCHWARTZES – CAN’T BE CRITICIZED

          • Chuck

            Hi Vlato you a..hoie. Oddly enough you’re right about the control the Rothschilds wield, but although they are ostensibly Jewish, do your homework you slug and find out what they really are.

          • Rawb

            Zionists.

          • rotten rollin

            How about taking the toilet cleaner to your mouth?

          • John Charmer

            What’s with the caps lock, you horse’s ass?

          • cts45862

            As an American citizen, you’d know all about it – wouldn’t you Damir… Funny how foreigners who know nothing about the united States seem to have all the inside knowledge of the inner workings of our country, yet they seem to be unable to make their own work…

          • snape

            you need to get the real facts before you distort them.

          • yolo

            Laura, 20 years is not that long ago.

          • DanielHilliard

            Laura is clearly retarded and doesn’t have a clue what apartheid is in South Africa. She simply sees white v. black and jumps to American slavery like a typical empty headed Republican who has no concept of world history.

          • John K

            Daniel your inability to act like an adult is troubling. You think you are brilliant yet you aren’t smart enough to know how to act like an adult. What a pathetic excuse for a man.

            Why do you feel the need to reach out and attack people like you are doing? You definitely come across as a sad little man that lashes out like a spoiled child. Sad

          • DanielHilliard

            I’m sorry. Do your little South African White Nationalist web rallies usually take on a more formal tone?? Please accept my most sincere apologies and forgive me… in the manner that Madiba forgave your lot. This is my first time stumbling across one of these great white rallies for justice. You’ll have to forgive my ignorance. you whining cunt.

          • J Simson

            What we have now is the reverse of Apartheid. Under the guise of affirmative action white males are discriminated and have no future in South Africa.

            That is fine by me. I am a highly qualified Electrical Engineer and work in high Tech. So I took my skills where they will be used. South Africa’s lose.

            Discrimination is wrong whether it is against black and white people.

          • Mr.Grammarer

            Fixed a few things in here for ya, no charge.

            “What we have now is the reverse of Apartheid. Under the guise of affirmative action white males are discriminated [against] and have no future in South Africa.

            That is fine by me. I am a highly qualified Electrical Engineer and work in high Tech [a high tech industry? please resubmit with changed sentence structure]. So I took my skills where they will be used. South
            Africa’s lose [loss].

            Discrimination is wrong whether it is against black [or] white people.”

          • Noca

            If you are going to claim to be “Mr. Grammarer” and fix other people’s sentences then at least use correct grammar and not slang or else you have no credibility.

            [I] fixed a few things in here for [you].

            And…”high tech” is a term for …wait for it…the high tech industry. If you can use the word “ya” why can’t he use “high tech” which is the term used by people in the industry and pretty well understood if you are educated.

            In some places you kept the original word (ex. lose) with your recommendation next to it and other times you replaced the word with your word. At least be consistent.

          • CoweringCoward

            I have my own small process control and automation service company. I am not feeling very loved in my own country, though work isn’t an issue, as they need the taxes to fund our founding population’s replacement.

          • Alison Clark

            Just to clarify “APARTHEID”, translated from Afrikaans means “SEPARATE-NESS” ….so the reverse would actually be TOGETHERNESS… ;-)

          • Broadus-Muskauski Deborah

            They probably looked at the U.S.’s progress and decided “TOGETHERNESS” is a pipe dream, so they made sure none of YOU ever got into a position of power? Look at how well it’s working for us here. Even with Affirmative action to force people to give us a chance, we still are eons behind and it’s NOT because we don’t try or are lazy.

          • Frim Lee

            It is not in any way reverse apartheid. Affirmative action seeks to even the playing field when it comes to socio-economic status. When apartheid was abolished the socio-economic situation of those affected by the regime were not.

            CEOs and directors of the major companies in South Africa as well as players in our sports teams were predominantly white. With more than 70% of our population being black, surely you must realize that that isn’t a fair representation of our country. Wealth and land are inherited. Unless something was done to drastically alter this, the socio-economic status of non-whites in South Africa would have taken decades to change, if at all, as whites would have continued to inherit wealth earned by their ancestors during apartheid and most non-whites would have continued to inherit next to nothing. This is the reasoning behind affirmative action and it makes logical sense.

            In my opinion those who fight against it are often ignorant of just how cruel and harsh the laws for non-whites were at the time. I think you should perhaps do some research on how non-whites, especially blacks, were treated. Now imagine those were your parents. Without being offered a bursary or lowered entrance points, would you have managed to obtain your Engineering degree?

            I agree that now the time has come for affirmative action to focus on benefiting those coming from a poor, underpriveliged background rather than focusing on race, but at the time of it’s inception, those were synonomous.

          • alandbailey

            If the white people had not ruled South Africa, do you honestly think it would be a fair country with everybody being equal? Look at the other post-colonial countries in Africa, are they better off?
            Rhodesia was the breadbasket of Africa – look at it now.
            Like it or not, the whites ran the countries efficiently for everyone with very little corruption – what a difference to to the independent black countries.

          • Wim Kotze

            You are obviously know very little of the history of “our” country, as is to be expected from a rooinek. Exactly how much wealth were there to pass on from generation to generation after the Brits murdered a third of the woman and children of the two rebublics that were then forced into the British dominated Union of South Africa?
            If you concern yourself with fact instead of fiction you would know that South Africa had the most educated black population on the continent under the so-called “apartheid” government, primarily funded by the white tax payer.
            Your pratel about the poor blacks is just that, pratel. Between 1995 and 2010 South Africa fell from 59th position to 110th out of 172 countries on the UN Human Development Index, and yet you have the audacity to speak of ignorance of those who criticize the current regime.

          • Walt

            loss* skills huh?

          • glebealyth

            Daniel, you could never be described as a cunt. You are neither warm nor welcoming enough.
            Nor, you give the impression, useful enough.

            You exude hatred, childishness and ignorance, though you de seem to have learned the various mantras of liberalism very well.

            As a left-wing liberal, do you feel that you should be made to pay for the atrocities committed by your fellow-travellers in the Soviet purges.

            If you do not, then you are a hypocrite who needs to STFU!

          • billybumlord

            cunt.

          • glebealyth

            Perhaps we can club together to buy you a dictionary with some bigger words in it for Xmas.

          • DanielHilliard

            Oh no!!!! Is that what theyve made you do???? “Pay for the atrocities”? You poor poor soul. What exactly have they done to you to make you pay for the atrocities of apartheid? Whats that? Nothing? Youre just uber thin skinned? Okay. Thought so.

          • glebealyth

            No, merely attempted to make me feel guilty so that I would be happy to pay.

            Daniel, when you have recharged your neurone, return and talk.

            It is an a priori consideration of Western Aid to Africa that guilt for the slave trade should be maximized to maximize aid. Recognizing this does not make me thin skinned. your failure to recognize (admit) the tactic makes you thick headed.
            As if more evidence of your mental state were needed.

          • DanielHilliard

            OH NO!!!! They tried to make you feel guilty??? Because you’re a member of a race that oppressed them and violated their civil rights for 50 years…. and they tried to make you feel guilty??? Oh dear God!!! you poor thing!!!! you must immediately go see a psychiatrist for your guilt!!! you fucking whining idiot.

          • glebealyth

            I am sure you have a list of psychiatrists that have failed to help you approach some semblance of normality, Daniel.
            I will try not to mention your name when I register. I would not want them to have to relive the trauma.

          • A human being

            So being a member of one race make you guilt of anything done by that race. Then that makes you a murdering, raping bastard, like everyone else, because every race is guilty of all things. So get real you simpleton, you are not innocent. Nelson Mandela killed people fact, just because some people want to paint him into being some saint, sorry not everyone is buying it.

          • Zoeker2012

            Does it bother you at all, that the idiots running the country are running it into the ground? Do you despair that South Africa will very likely descend into political violence soon enough.

            You can spew all the vitriol that you want, the ANC is well equipped to throw spears, beat drums, wear face paint, rape and burn stuff. As far as successfully running a country, not so much.

          • bones327

            screw off already.

          • alandbailey

            I thought that it was the negroes that sold their own people into slavery via the arab slave traders. I thought the whites just traded for slaves, not snatched them.
            But the arabs apparently made slave raids in Cornwall.

          • evervigilant

            Oh right! All the ‘others’ did the bad things. The whites just fell into it… just ‘traded for slaves’. Are you stupid or just brainwashed?

          • alandbailey

            I am open – minded. Why do you wish to deny the facts?
            If my facts are wrong – please disprove them.
            Also, remember that it was England that fought and abolished the slave trade.
            Unfortunately it appears that modern travellers (Irish?) are carrying on the slave trade.
            A pity that the bleeding heart do-gooders managed to abolish capital punishment!

          • alandbailey

            Neither – I just prefer to know the facts!
            Are you denying that the arabs and negroes were an essential part of the slave trade?
            Why don’t you research before posting ignorant comments?

          • James Lovelace

            “It is an a priori consideration of Western Aid to Africa that guilt for the slave trade should be maximized to maximize aid. ”

            The islamic slave trade dwarves the Atlantic slave trade. While the Atlantic slave trade ended 150 years ago, it is still kept alive to make white (post)christians feel guilty.

            Black african historians who want to talk openly about the islamic slave trade are told “do not do this, muslims feel no guilt about it because slavery is legal in islam and they despise non-muslims; if the christians find out about the islamic slave trade, they may stop paying retributions because they realise the muslims won’t pay anything”.

            http://www.amazon.co.uk/Islams-Black-Slaves-History-Diaspora/dp/1903809819

            The above book is written by a South African anti-apartheid campaigner. Whilst white-based apartheid has ended, we hear nothing about the 1300 years of islamic apartheid.

          • bones327

            I wish I could give you 50 positive votes.

            No one talks about this, but it must be exposed.

            Liberals want whites to feel guilt for things they did not do and bend over backwards to excuse the atrocities committed by muslims every day.

          • Johan Lindström

            And you’re trying to say that Christianity has never hurt anybody? Every day people from other religions get bullied and beat in the USA because its such a “Peaceful religion” and all that bullshit. Only fundamentalists from these religions do stuff like blowing yourself up or terrorism.

          • bones327

            Really? As you leftists like to say, show me some links to prove your claims. Did the Catholic Church kill people in the Middle Ages? undoubtedly. But the primary source of violence and evil in the world today is Islam.

          • Johan Lindström

            No but the catholic church supported the government that executed 6 million jews. The pope said “This handshake with the Papacy…is a feat of immeasurable blessing…May God preserve Reich Chancellor Hitler.” Oh and the current pope said that pedophilia was a normal and accepted thing in the church in the 70s…
            But then again “Christian Fundamentalists” violence vs “Muslim Fundamentalists” violence… Muslim fanatics is a bit more violent than christian fanatics.

          • bones327

            Sorry, but in my book, the Roman church is nothing other than an extension of Babylonian and Greek paganism. The pope calls himself the “vicar of christ.” do you know what that means in Latin? vicar means against or in place of (As in “vicarious”) He calls himself the Anti-Christ.

            The Roman church is anything but real, bible based Christianity. See “A Woman Rides the Beast,” by David Hunt.

          • glebealyth

            The primary source of evil in the world, throughout history is religion.

            Oppression and manipulation of the leity so that the priesthood might enjoy luxury without the effort of working.

          • bones327

            Mmm . . . the primary source of violence in the last 50 years has been Islamists. The primary source of violence in the 20th century were secular humanist states of Nazi Germany, China, Cambodia, USSR, East Germany, and other Socialist states.

          • Danielhilliardhacks

            Daniel heres what you dont understand you indolent moron…. No average white citizen is directly involved with that, it was the system and the hierarchy that created that old corrupt system.

            Sailors in the Slave Trade would starve to death before one of the “valuable” slaves. Thats the world these horribile systems create.

            The fact that you are endorsing unfair treatment of whites like they are responsible for corrupt systems in insane. But moreover indicates that your a supporting the same exact type of system that was against blacks. (not retribution) You are endorsing corruption as a means of finding someone to blame. Because you are pathetic. Keep trolling bud.

          • John

            In a nutshell, his philosophy is called “hypocrisy”. You can never set a wrong to right by perpetuating the exact same wrong with a different focus. Only a complete idiot would not see that.

          • Broadus-Muskauski Deborah

            YET, the exact same wrong with the very same focus in in effect now. Hypocrisy much?? Change THIS system before bitching about a system that rejects your attempts to insert yourselves as a power base.

          • John

            You obviously are having an issue with reading comprehension. I said that it (the system you speak of) is wrong, whichever way it expresses itself.

            Learn to read before you say I am trying to assert my “power base”. After all, words mean something.

          • lsksmash

            Let us agree… you may not need a jersey, but someone else out there does, you may not need a grant (social support) but someone else does, apartheid left many races in needs that the white man was simply been covered for… simple example, the vast majority of land which they owned, the mines that they owned, the right to vote and make national decisions on behalf of all South African… Affirmative action is simply addressing those needs, it is not hypocrisy it is a corrective measure…

          • Cat McDonald

            This is what I call a self-absorbed, egoistic, sarcastic, asshole…who doesn’t respect or listen to any one’s opinion. Idiotic attitude!

          • Matthew Engel

            Daniel has AIDS

          • SpeakTheTruthToday

            More likely syphillus. that’s what is causing the insanity.

          • Zoeker2012

            here’s the plan – all the whites in South Africa now being oppressed to make up for past oppression should get up and leave. Then, we can all watch and see how quickly South Africa becomes Zimbabwe

          • Jetblakc

            You think that the people that executed the Soviet purges were “left wing liberals”? Either you don’t know what the word liberal means, or you don’t know what the word purge means.

            Because once you start purging people you’ve given up the right to call yourself liberal.

          • glebealyth

            I am aware of what the “word” liberal means.

            I am also aware the liberals have never been liberal within the meaning of the word liberal.

            Liberal politics are merely a dumbed-down version of Marxism, a philosophy which powered the activities I spoke of.

          • evervigilant

            Geeezzz… so you do not know the meaning of liberalism after all. So you STFU.

          • upyours

            no u STFU

          • Captain Howdy

            Why did you put the word liberal in quotations, are you implying that it is not a word?

          • glebealyth

            On a careful re-reading of my comment, I notice that I actually put the word “word” in quotations marks.
            Of course, I could be suggesting that the word “word” is not a word!?

          • Zoeker2012

            Well, see, that’s where the magical thinking of Lefties kick in. You support socialist and Communist ideals, and pretend to have no accountability for the inevitable outcome.

            Yes, the Soviets were “liberals” in the sense that we discuss financial policies in the US. They favored big government, no free enterprise, 100% taxation. Basically the program Lefties like you can only dream of. Problem is, these policies can only be put in place through a few well-planned purges.

            I hate to shatter your cute little world view, but the Soviets didn’t magically stop being liberals just because they got caught in mass murder.

          • evervigilant

            You RightWingers remain mired in your own stupidity. Just keep telling the erroneous clap over and over and some ufgnread will thik it has to be true. You are a disgrace to democracy which works best with an educated populous… not baaing FX news sheep.

          • Zoeker2012

            Oh crap! I’m a disgrace to democracy. actually, don’t even believe in democracy, per say. I believe in republican (note – little “r”) democracy. I believe that democracy results in mob rules. Take for example, the “democracy” of South Africa. The ANC has to go through the annoyance of elections, and sometimes the faces at the feeding trough will change, but the inevitable fact of ANC domination doesn’t change, and won’t change.

            As for the stupidity about “educated populous”, that’s the last thing leftists like you want. You don’t want your Nobel Peace Prize hero to be exposed as a ruthless killer. You don’t want to be reminded about his praising of every scumbag dictator on the globe. No, you don’t want an educated populous. You want a programmed populous. Those are different things.

          • Johan Lindström

            The soviets were fucking fascists with communism as a cover up. It was a police state, everything you did and know was heavily controlled and strongly nationalistic. The were also against immigration and emigration, against a democratic system, these things fits more with fascism than with communism. And i don’ know how you can be lazy in a land that follow the motto “He who does not work, neither shall he eat”…

          • Zoeker2012

            Gotcha: Soviets – bad Commies, ANC – good Commies. Well, good luck with that!

          • Johan Lindström

            Did i write that ANC were good commies? There are no good commies because humans can never achieve that, we’re way to greedy and selfish for that. Also ANC isn’t a communist party, its a social democracy party (at least they say they are)
            its a big difference.

          • Zoeker2012

            Actually, calling them Communists would attribute some form of principle to this bunch of banal thieves.

            Communism only exists in the fantasy of idiots at places like Harvard. They’re simply a bunch of kleptocrats who secure their power base through wealth redistribution.

          • Zoeker2012

            Well, I guess you’re confusing things a bit. Communists can be, and frequently are, nationalistic. Doesn’t make them fascists.

            Communist countries can have periods of iron fist police state rule. Doesn’t make them fascists.

            You’re very wrong about immigration – they strongly encouraged and financially supported immigration. In any case, controlling immigration does not make a country fascist or not fascist.

            Communists and fascists are equally opposed to democratic rule. Soviets had elections every 2 years to select Politburos and Soviets. Definitely not an aspect observed in recent fascist governments.

            Fascists maintained the private sector economy through government controlled corporatism. Communists take over all means of production. Soviets were Communists.

            I know, I know, it’s hard for you to accept. This is because you live with the fallacy that Communist – politically left, Fascist – politically right. Well, you can be relieved to know that the leftists in America not only supported the rise of Communism, but also strongly supported the rise of Fascism! Learn actual history and you won’t be forced to bend truth into reality to fit in your little world view.

            I suggest you go to Wikipedia and read up a bit.

          • Johan Lindström

            But you’re not talking about Communism right now, you’re talking about Stalinism and Leninism. Its more appropriate to say that Soviet was a “Marxist-Leninist state” as saying it was communistic contradicts itself as a communist state is a state without government.

          • Zoeker2012

            Yada yada – Communist or Marxist, splitting hairs. Communism is a fairy tale. Marxism is the multiple-times-attempted-and-always-failed roadmap to that fairy tale. In any case, what you have any time Communists or Marxists rise to power is increased poverty, no personal freedom and lots of dead bodies.

          • Johan Lindström

            Well i cant deny that, but then again its in human nature to be greedy and make good things into something that someone can profit on.

          • evervigilant

            Comparing grapes and watermelons.

          • YouAsnineFool

            I have no words… You aware of the hypocrisy and troll logic you just threw out there?

            You think that people with left wing ideas are all culpable for the purges? Surely you realise that this is not the case?

            If we’re using your troll logic, Nazis were totalitarian and right wing by nature. Should I label all right wingers culpable for the Nazis? Surely you should realise that both the parties being discussed are extreme by nature in either left-wing or right-wing and therefore not valid compared to left/right wingers?

          • glebealyth

            I apologize, I inadvertently left off a question mark at the end of the penultimate sentence.
            This obviously misled you in your response.

            I was asking the question in response to the suggestion that I should feel guilty about and responsible for the oppression, slavery and ill-treatment of black Africans in history. I do not feel guilty or responsible for them in the same way that I do not feel guilty for the sin of Eve in the Garden of Eden and do not subscribe to the doctrine of original sin.

            If, however, the person I was speaking to thought I should feel guilty then, on that principle, I asked whether he felt responsible for the purges, etc., carried out by people whose philosophy he had chosen to follow.

            Please read the comments (the sentence’s structure should have led you to see that the “?” was missing) and please do not put words into my mouth.
            I disagree that you have no words, though you might read the words of others more carefully.

          • itisso

            This post should be removed immediately.

          • DanielHilliard

            ^^^ crying.

          • glebealyth

            That’s not crying, Daniel.
            That’s the excess cerebro-spinal fluid where your brain should be, leaking out.

          • KT

            No Daniel. You are the one that has been crying throughout these comments with all of your whhhaaaaa!!!!! whhhaaaa! whhhhaaaaaa! CONSTANTLY. It’s gross.

          • Dan

            Vengeance is never justification for anything, and in the case of Zimbabwe – the deaths/starvation of millions. Is vengeance worth sacrificing your people? That’s a makings of a mad man.

          • Canna Jai

            in the case of zimbabwe the white zim were betrayed by Mugabe and by the british goverment at the time for failing to honour the promise they made about paying zimbabwe for the land the whites owned which could cover 100-200 miles per farm..The land reform could have been done a different way both sides are wrong and theres always collateral damage is polictics

          • Broadus-Muskauski Deborah

            At that point, I don’t think they really care. When one is between a rock and hard place, it’s pretty hard to make a justification for either path! The U.S. is full of MAD MEN, they are nearly ALL white.

          • Danielhilliardisanidiot

            2 wrongs dont make a right

            Daniel. the fact that you mention a political party “republicans” shows that you are aligned, and therefore bias, and therefore discredited.

          • John

            Regardless, the bottom line is that two wrongs don’t make a right. Your use of the language you employ epitomizes the Lao Tsu saying that strong words indicate weak arguments.

            Keep showing your weakness.

          • Broadus-Muskauski Deborah

            Sez YOU. You would probably be singing a different tune if you were among those in power.

          • hanzeldillnards

            you truly are the greatest cunt of them all sir

          • 1Gary

            You really need wine with your cheese. The world is a hard and awful place. Like it or not Mandela did what he had todo to bring the end to an evil regime. Freedom is never free. Mandela more than most understood that. You obviously don’t. Did Mandela kill innocents, yes. Name one world leader who’s actions has not killed innocent people.

          • alandbailey

            Perhaps we should deify Gerry Adams next?

          • KT

            You know someone has no argument at all when they resort to name calling.

          • Broadus-Muskauski Deborah

            Yet, most of YOU are doing it against DanielHilliard…or are y’all exempt?

          • KT

            Well since I didn’t resort to any name calling then why are you replying to MY comment?

          • Matthew Engel

            Daniel Hilliard eats the ass of niglets

          • DanielHilliard

            Lol. you got so mad that you had to come out of your racist hiding? hahahaaaa. that’s funny. i hope all of your buddies on this page will follow suit. It’s clear that 90% of the people on here are racists.

          • Peter

            Why do you fight facts? Why are you for oppression of any race? You seem to want innocent white SA farmer families to be killed for something some a-hole in government did 40 years ago.

            I must ask, are you re tarded? Please i’m dying to know

          • billy

            hey daniel i met your mother a little while back. she sucked my dick for free and swallowed, she should have done everyone here the same courtesy and swallowed your dads so none of us would have to be insulted with your presence.

          • tasharina1

            Daniel: I am a woman and am totally offended at you using a woman’s sexual anatomy as a way to cuss us out. You must really hate women, if not consciously then deep down. You need to clean up your own backyard before judging others.

          • DanielHilliard

            You’re not offended. You’re looking for a reason to be outraged and this is the best you can think of.

          • tasharina1

            You are a very offensive person and that wasn’t the only thing I found offensive about you, it was just the worst. It is truly saddening that you can’t see how offensive that word is to women and if you have a girlfriend or wife, I’m sure she has heard it more than once.

            It also shows that you are a hypocrite calling people racist and bigoted when you are a sexist and racist against white people. I made sure I gave you a chance to apologize for your sexist comment and instead you dug in and brushed off my feelings as inconsequential and phony.

            You really should stumble back into those other conversations you came from, where it appears, hypocrisy, intolerance and offensive language is par for the course.

          • Cyclops

            Madiba? Do you mean ‘ the former terrorist Mandela’?

          • Danielzinho

            each of your posts have made me smile because you are clearly an idiot. lol. how’s it feel to wear that hat every day?

          • dms0001

            Daniel, A legend in his own mind!

          • glebealyth

            Daniel’s connection with legend (leg-end) is merely that you would put one IN a shoe, whereas Daniel would be found sticking to the underside.

          • elmarcito

            I was trying to find the right words… is it a liberal thing to use ad hominems against those that disgaree with them while claiming the moral higher ground?

          • DanielHilliard

            Oh no!!!! Ad hominems!!! Someone is calling names!!!! WHAHAAAAA!!!! “Liberal.” “Ad hominem” = the babbling of a right wing, Fox News-watching idiot.

          • John

            Actually, only someone with a functioning brain can recognize the logical fallacy that is in an ad hominem argument. The rest use the tactic to make themselves feel superior, like middle school kids who pick on each other to gain an upper hand.

            Grow up Daniel.

          • Stephan

            As if you hadn’t used ad hominems. You said he was a pathetic excuse for a man.. i would call that an insult. Furthermore, his point between the different personal slights remains nevertheless. Racial segregation didn’t just end with slavery. There are lots of people alive today who lived during apartheid – that is not surprising, since it just ended in 1994. Black people weren’t even alowed to swim – and definitely only the last option for any job (except something humiliating that you wouldn’t want white people to do). Although it might not be the most effective solution to treat white people as less, it is totally understandable. Taking the land of huge farmers to redistribute among poor black people is also not that bad in principle, but rather fair. Pretty much how the whites approached that problem in the first place as well (except of course that there weren’t these huge farms owned only by a single family). I am all for Daniel.
            GO DANIEL!! GO DANIEL!!

            and by the way – that is one of the most amusing comment section I have read for a while.

          • Jesse Coffey

            I see… So ending racism with more racism is acceptable ?

          • glebealyth

            To the liberal, it is.

          • Stephan

            Definitely seems kind of balancing out the scale doesn’t it? I would agree however, if you said that it is not an effective way to gain a better living environment for everybody.

          • Henri le Riche

            Stephen and who told you all this nonsense?

            Why do I say it’s nonsense, because I lived under Apartheid.

            I grew up with black people like many of us did. We went to weddings, to funerals. I cycled as a kid to my friends. We didn’t have a swimming pool but we all went to the river. Even my late father’s best friends were black and he, sometimes had to go beg for food.

            Now let me ask you this. You didn’t know this right? Why would you? You were told what whoever wanted you to believe to break down a system.

            Now my next question is, if these things never happened, which most of us know how Americans were duped, and still are, how many other things were also not with held from you??

            Ignorance is power Stephen. Your limited info of your PERCEPTION, just acknowledged that.

            http://WWW.HENRILERICHE.COM

          • Stephan

            Sorry for the late reply henri..
            Indeed i am not from south africa and can therefore not boast some personal experience. You are also right in concluding that I (obviously) have to rely on some kind of media to get my information. Media is always biased and will definitely never cover the whole picture and all individual experiences – and that is actually a main flaw in your argumentation. Just because you had an individual experience with a family trying to bridge the borders between the colors doesn’t mean that this is representative. I mean, what kind of sample size is that? Afterwards you go on saying that you had thousands of black soldiers who fought for the apartheid regime – so what? Just as an example, the British sent Indians to fight for them in Africa when they were still a colonial power. There are countless examples when a minority was fighting for the interests of a majority in history and there are thousand different factors that might have led them to do so – not necessarily their longstanding believe in apartheid. The rest of your argument is about me… not being able to survive in this regime and being an ignorant fuck from the USA. I am actually not from the US, but anyway – this is completely irrelevant to the discussion.
            Your provocative statements might lead to some traffic on your site though, so I guess that is good…
            Have a nice day!

          • Jak

            My Father was a soldier in Angola, he always told me growing up “Theres no Apartheid in the foxhole”. I guess he wanted me to treat everyone fairly. Something the current government does not seem to understand.

          • A rational mind

            The idea of grouping humans in categories such as ”black people” and “white people” is backwards. Humans abused humans. “White people” didn’t just abused blacks they also abused Native Americans and, not to mention, 99.99% of THEIR OWN POPULATION. For a very long time, what we define as slavery would apply to all the common folk. This is why there was the french revolution.

            In addition, “black leaders” sold many black people into slavery. This a battle over domination, not race.

            Rich vs Poor
            French vs English vs Spanish vs other language
            Race vs Race
            Country vs Country
            Religion vs Religion

            You are comparing humans who have no connection to the horrors of slavery and trying to make them suffer in order to fulfill some idealistic and deluded form of “absolute justice”.

          • Alison Clark

            Daniel, get help

          • Thomas Dobbins

            “Daniel”… is that YOU, President Stompy Feet…?

          • Matthew Engel

            Daniel Hilliard cock sucker from way back

          • The Jimbo

            Very sad that the humans on our planet earth have had to hate each other for so long. Every human on earth has a real need to be the one in power. Nothing is ever fair in this world. I know this sounds a little naïve, but wouldn’t it be nice if the humans on OUR planet respected each other while showing each other brotherly love? Unfortunately this will NEVER happen and the planet will destroy itself.

          • Collin

            An ad hominem is not about calling names; it is about calling names in an obvious and intentional effort to distract from the argument by supposedly detracting from the character of the argument’s proponent. Which happens. A lot.

          • DanielHilliard

            Yes. I am aware of what it is. I am not a Fox News watching idiot who learned the word when they first heard Sean Hannity use it. An ad hominem attack is when you try to discredit someones arguing by calling them names, as opposed to directly confronting their arguments. People who generally say really stupid things and make no arguments like to make accusations of “ad hominem attacks.” I’m not trying to discredit people’s arguments by calling them names. I’m simply noting how stupid these people are and trying to help their awareness of their own intelligence levels. There aren’t really very many “arguments” from all the racists and bigots on here. Just ill-informed, biased opinions. Therefore, me calling them idiots isn’t an ad hominem attack, because there is no argument that I’m trying to discredit. I’m simply letting them know that they are ignorant fools.

          • Collin

            Oh, I wasn’t actually accusing you of an ad hominem. Your comment just painted it to seem as if conservatives took offense from the said general use of ad hominem, while the person to whom you were replying said no such thing. They were just noting a trend apparent to them. And personally I’ve been dealing with ad hominems since I was 12, whereas I hadn’t seen Hannity until about 6 weeks ago. Just saying that perhaps not all of us are the ignorami with which you seem to be accustomed to dealing.

          • Ron47

            Face it Danny, you’re just rude. It’s not your fault, but your parents, as they failed to raise you properly. Someone else is always at fault for liberals’ actions. Now as an adult, you are a poor reflection of them and of yourself.

          • cerise3577

            I was amused at his brag that he does not watch Fox News…. not hearing “the other side” (as if it politics were sports teams) makes him wiser? between that and the juvenile profanity, I picture a sour 15 year old, sitting at his desk home alone, taking out his anger.. I don’t think he is an adult, he has that “feel powerful and all grown up using bad words” aspect. He uses message boards as a break from violent computer games… it’s almost like having friends ;-).
            the pity is he breaks up an intelligent conversation…
            so needy of attention, even bad attention…

          • Ron47

            I wonder which hurts him the most, ignorance or lack of manners?

          • chris85

            To be fair Daniel seems to be one of the few people on this thread making any sense. He’s resorting to a lot of insults but that’s probably because he is getting ridiculously frustrated at all the ignorance on here. This IS an article about South Africa and two people (Chuck and Laura) are ranting about the USA as if it’s the same thing. What’s really puzzling, and a bit sad, is that so many people seem to agree with them

          • Aaron

            haha, the guy tries to claim he isn’t using an ad hominem attack, but then in the very next sentence calls everyone disagreeing with him racists and bigots. and nobody just calls another person an ignorant fool without believing they are mistaken about something. you call them these names because you disagree with them. therefore, you ARE trying to discredit their argument by claiming they are unintelligent. it doesn’t matter how much you say you dont do something. if you do it, no amount of denying will change that fact. what you are claiming when you say you are calling these people names without influence from their opinions, is the same as saying you walk up to some person you know nothing about on the street and call them an idiot. actually, its more like seeing that random person attempt a simple elementary school math problem and fail, then walking up to them, and calling them stupid, but not being influenced by the failed attempt at math. its ridiculous. if anyone here is a fool, it is you

          • Phil Taylor

            I have never read such rubbish, and anyone that starts to call others racist and bigots tells me that they have lost the argument, hence the name calling.

          • DanielHilliard

            what words do you use to label racists and bigots? are you saying i should have used different words?

          • Phil Taylor

            They are not racists and bigots, they have a different view and opinion to you, by calling them names like that, it then becomes you that are the racist and bigot, not them .

          • Mike Baudanza

            wow,your a real tied and true progressive ,if there ever was one. pathetic!

          • DanielHilliard

            let me guess…. Anyone who doesn’t believe in white supremacy is a progressive??? Am I right Mike?

          • Cyril Sneer

            I logged in especially to let you know that I think you’re a total dick head Danielzinho.

          • Danielzinho

            Thank you!!! When I stumble upon webpages full of racists crying about racism… that is the reaction that I’m hoping for. Thank you again.

          • POOPOOPANTS

            hey Daniel, i logged in especially to let you know that i think your a wonderful human being. but i do also think that when apartheid ended it didn’t really end for anyone, whites are restricted and blacks are still in the slums. instead of white supremacy beating down the black the black are now beating down the whites and also the poor.

          • POOPOOPANTS

            but that being said, no white man is a natural native of Africa as far as i am aware. peace to all

          • Cyclops

            What a racist bigot you are!

          • Cyclops

            Sorry to intervene but you are clearly of very limited intelligence. Do you have a job in a service industry e.g. flipping burgers at McDonald’s?

          • glebealyth

            You may not be a “Fox News watching idiot”, but you do seem to be depriving a village somewhere of your presence.

          • Chuck

            Daniel, your internet screaming is just what might be expected of a spoiled 2-year-old brat if he could type. But I’ll try to help you. This country has GIVEN more to the world than any other super power in the history of the planet. In case you hadn’t noticed, a black man, supported by a majority of white voters, has attained the White House. The government that was set up by the Founding Fathers has left the path open to greater opportunity than any other nation/state in history. Of course your demands for absolute perfection are what one might expect from some brain-washed twit like yourself. The nation’s economic plight isn’t the result of the people who are out there busting their tails to make life better, rather it is due to parasites, with the support of elitists of whom you, no doubt approve, that have infested the Administration and Congress. You should read up on the term “useful idiot”. But I know you don’t care. You are so full of venom and bile that only total destruction will satisfy your obsession. Of course that destruction that you crave will also be your own ending.

          • DanielHilliard

            lol. you done?

          • DanielHilliard

            You eat newspaper, dont you? This article is about South Africa, not the USA. Try to at least get the hemispere right next time. Or at least an adjacent hemisphere. Stupid cunt.

          • evervigilant

            No,it is not. Finally doing what gopers have done for too long.

          • steve allen

            You are right John K. Daniel Hilliard seems to be a d@*k. He is the smartest person he has ever met!

          • Ryan

            That’s awfully sad isn’t it?

          • maxdon1978

            Some people totally forget that after slavery blacks didn’t have any rights for over a 100 years and then when they were giving rights…they were subjected to Jim Crow/segregation laws for half a century until 1968–which was only 45 years ago.

          • SomeGalNTx

            And people (especially Danny boy) should remember that in the US, to which Maxdon is referring, the civil rights and voting rights acts, as well as desegregation was FULLY supported by Republicans, but opposed by Democrats. LBJ himself made a comment indicating that keeping (that n word that I hate) beholden to the system will keep them voting and they can court those votes. They do so by LYING to them about the history of the Democratic party.
            And no…I am neither Democrat or Republican, or a member of the Tea Party. I Vote for the man or woman who has shown the greatest integrity, character, and propensity to follow the Constitution, regardless of color.

          • DaWholeTruth

            And Liberals forget they started the KKK and fought tooth and nail to keep slavery in tact…………’course you’ll get Progressives suffering from liberal white guilt that say the parties ‘switched sides’ to which I always retort was that before or after LBJ said “I’ll have those niggers voting Democrat for the next 200 years.”

          • Broadus-Muskauski Deborah

            Unfortunately, the Reps showed themselves that they weren’t actually trying to help us…and we caught on fast. We were struggling under their laws/governance, the inequality is too great to overcome by changing a few laws. Mindsets have to be changed, too! The Dems probably realized this and gave some of the weaker among ALL people a “helping hand” in the form of government assistance. The Repubs would rather pass laws and leave us to die in the streets!!!

          • DaWholeTruth

            Da Comrade DA!!!! So you’re a fan of Cloward-Piven strategy (look it up) the President’s using so that soon we will have the same economic class system as Mexico with NO middle class and everyone dependent on the gubmint teat? Sorry, I’ll pass on these wondrous changed Dear Leader and his minions have TRIED to institute…….

          • glebealyth

            Only 45 years ago, eh?

            So everyone who is under 63 years old, who could not have voted for the politicians who ran the regimes you so detest, is exempt from blame, as they did nothing to support or elect them.

            That clears nearly all of us.

            Go away.

          • Roberta Metalious

            Whoa, Daniel, I was with you all along down the line until you started bashing republicans.

          • DanielHilliard

            Well. Some Republicans are alright.

          • DaWholeTruth

            Republicans are FINE, it’s the RINOS that aren’t worth spit……………saying what the people that voted them in want to hear and doing the exact opposite and caving in the the New World Order Progressive elitists

          • davidcoe

            DanielHilliard is a nigger looking for attention.

          • DanielHilliard

            hahaaaa. i’m glad you show your true colors. racism is the absence of any intelligence. =) congratulations. you’ve achieved maximum stupidity.

          • itisso

            We no longer use the word “retarded.” It shows how ignorant you are. There is absolutely no excuse for being rude to people.

          • glebealyth

            What word do you use in its stead, itisso, or do you merely ignore the condition?

          • xpatYankeeCurmudgeon

            “She simply sees white v. black and jumps to American slavery like a typical empty headed Republican who has no concept of world history.”

            You make her sound more like Obama…

          • edmundo

            I think what Laura is saying is use a decent argument rather than nonsense followed by a childish insult which makes you come across as a capital letter writing idiot!

          • DanielHilliard

            firstly. i don’t reason with stupid people. it’s pointless. secondly. that thick lump was going on about american slavery in a race discussion about nelson mandela….with all due respect…. she’s more likely to eat a newspaper than read it. decent arguments don’t carry weight with idiots. if you don’t know that by now, you’re probably one of the idiots. sorry.

          • glebealyth

            …and thirdly, you do not reason with anybody.

            You merely shout your opinionated bigotry at them and then insult them, should they not agree with you.

            You have no decent arguments with which to carry any weight or, if you have, they are buried beneath the great mass of bigotry you carry around as a chip on your shoulder.

          • SuperTerryBull .

            Got to be honest here Daniel your clearly Insane ,White people do not tolerate racism if we did we wouldnt have broke down boundries after all White people had all the power ,Should we voice our concerns about a double standard in a different country thats supposed to free and demotratic yes we should thats how we move on as a global people sharing the planet ,as for youre comment”stop crying we did far worse to them” youre obviously a liberal who goes around appologising to black people for slavery or Arpetheid ,which is totally pathetic ,we the people didnt want this but we couldnt do anything about it ,as most people worldwide were slaves but guess who were the biggest sellers of slaves ,certainly wasnt white as for Arpetheid The whole world lobbied South Africa to change including white countries ,now looks like we having to do it again but to help whites ,that is just wrong and there is no justification for it

          • Broadus-Muskauski Deborah

            LMAO at your attempt to “reframe” history.

          • SuperTerryBull .

            “reframe” History? Just stating facts backed up by world history

          • poppie

            Hey, please look at those fact again. The SA now is way worse than the SA then. There are many black tribes in SA. The aparthied wasnt just bck vs white, it was also black vs black. I saw on tv (im south african fyi) black people placing other black people in tiers, putting oil on them and setting them on fire while they roll down a hill. The aparthied was like a zoo placing everyone in areas for the safety of everyone

          • James – Zambia

            gentlemen….a lot of things happened during apartheid and honestly we would never want to go down that path ever again, the onus is on all of us the now generation to change things for the better, those of us (blacks) in positions of power we need to work towards an apartheid free society and those of us (whites) we need to do the same if we are to leave a better world for our children and their children’s. we can not change the past but we have a responsibility to change today for the betterment of the tomorrow we want….Mandela and his people did their part in good and bad!!!!

          • Alison Clark

            And where did you get your expert knowledge on apartheid Daniel ??

          • Brad Turner

            shut up bitch

          • catadawg

            Daniel is your typical, slack jawed mouth breathing name calling MSNBC watching (probably naked and aroused) liberal who sees great inequality for the black, but no such inequalities for any other group. You know the ones, the blame everything on the jews that occupied wall street. If I partially lobotomize myself with a spoon and then bang my toe can I achieve the same level of hate and anger as a liberal? Oh, and Daniel, I hope your aforementioned “girlfriend” is a dude and you cannot reproduce. Well, will you look a that, “I be angry like liberal, now”.

          • Erik Storm

            Think about what you said. Skin color, political parties, and whatever country you’re from aside; you’re saying that it’s okay to deny someone there rights and freedom because they did the same to you years earlier. Laws based upon what race you are were shameful back then, and they are just as shameful now. Nothing has changed except for which side is doing the crime. If you thought it was horrible back then, then why are you making excuses for the same thing that’s going on today?

          • john smith

            Empty headed Republican………….Hmm, I am sure you totally approve of Obamacare and how it has been implemented. Democrats are just plain stupid and will be solely responsible for the eventual demise of our once “free” and great country. The Politically correct-social justice thinking of educated idiots like you has set this country on a path to destruction. I bet you wouldn’t even give credence to the fact that Nelson Mandela is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people. He even had enough class to admit he is just as wrong as the people responsible for Apartheid.

          • nama se mama

            oh and you do? jesus daniel honestly if you cant hold a debate then shut your filthy mouth!!! some of us know how to hold one and some of us LIVED through apartheid…yes i am a cry baby because i dont see how ANYONE can applaud ANYONE who would put their own people in tyres and then burn them because they actually agree with whites and voted for whites…again do your research nigger before youre african brothers teach you the hard way

          • Danielzinho

            oh. by the way. I’m a white American….you ignorant, uncivilized monkey.

          • lsksmash

            Especially considering the effects it had on the people it affected…e.g. if psychologist often say, it was because of your childhood that you are like this (that statement usually comes 20 years later)

          • FlotsamJetsam

            She’s talking about slavery in the US, not Apartheid.

          • DanielHilliard

            1994…. You idiot. Nelson Mandela died yesterday and he was locked up for 27 years!!! That happened a long time ago and nobody living today had ANYTHING to do with that. ARE. YOU. RETARDED? Apartheid did not end at the same time slavery did. So turn your single brain cell on before posting.

          • J Simson

            He was locked up for a good reason.

            Ask the families of people he murdered.

          • Broadus-Muskauski Deborah

            So, because he murdered people in an attempt to get rid of a regime that he suffered under, he should be locked up…why are your kind in the U.S. still allowed to walk free? Your hands are not blood-free either since we are going by someone’s PAST…(which I know blacks aren’t allowed to do…we are not allowed to use the “past” in arguments. lol)

          • James Lovelace

            “So, because he murdered people in an attempt to get rid of a regime that he suffered under, he should be locked up”

            On that kind of logic, you can justify what Breivik did. Maybe we will live to see Anders Breivik beatified like Mandela.

          • catadawg

            So, these guys that flew planes into buildings because they disagree with non-Islamic lifestyles shouldn’t be locked up because they were fighting for change against a perceived unjust system?

          • lsksmash

            And yet your fore fathers never got locked up for anything they did to the black man during the apartheid period. How do you lock a man up for going against the apartheid system (not referring to Mandela), Who shot at students, at Hector Peterson, did they get locked up? At least Mandela owned up to his crimes, where is the idiot who shot Hector. Do you know that the photographer had to run and change countries to avoid been killed by the government of that time, that is someone’s life messed up by yet again the apartheid system.

          • Rawb

            Oh? So I guess we should get to jailing all these political American scumbags who are causing death to innocent people as I type this very sentence? Why is it American leaders can literally get away with murder while you pick on someone who has done far less and for a greater cause? I will never condone murder but for all you people to hate Mandela for the same thing your leaders have been doing but on a far larger scale is beyond pathetic and is the reason America is turning into a glob of shit. Always distracted by things that either don’t concern you or by things that will keep you from questioning your own leaders actions. WAKE THE HELL UP.

          • Nienie

            So true.

          • V the K

            Nobody living today had anything to do with slavery, but leftists still bitch about it.

          • J Simson

            That is all they have. Like peice of drift wood in open ocean of dead ideology

          • DanielHilliard

            Apartheid ended only less than 20 years ago you think lump!!!!!! You speak of brain drain….do you have one??? Multiple generations of SA blacks that are alive today grew up in apartheid. Thats a dr I ft wood in an open ocean?? And just as multiple generations of blacks who are alive grew uo in it….multiple generations of SA whites who are alive today perpetrated it and benefited from it. Take your head out of your arse buddy.

          • Kojo

            Its just like American right wing-nuts.. they can’t wait for their sordid part of history to be over so they can re-write it. They think that NOW everything should be on an even playing field and that no one needs to be able to ‘catch up’ for decades of being held down and repressed. News to those who think they have had nothing to do with crimes of the past – you are STILL reaping the rewards of a system of entitlement that was built by your fathers and grandfathers to benefit YOU.

          • elmarcito

            I suppose you’re talking about slavery? You do know it was the Democrats that were against Civil rights and contrary to what you may have been “taught”, Dixie Dems did not join the GOP… Matter of fact deceased Democrat Senator was the lead of the KKK.

          • TRH86

            Kojo are you stupid or do you have a disability? Right Wing people and the Republicans are what made this nation! You seem to be one of the sheep that belives everything the Democrats tell you! It’s called self education you moron! You do know Republicans are the ones that fought to keep the US together and end slavery? You do know that Republicans fought against the Jim Crow laws and segregation in the United States? You do know that it was Republicans that passed the Civil Rights Act? My apologies you are a sterotypical Democrat, get fed horseshit and think it’s a Fing T-Bone steak!
            I’m hoping you do know some stuf Kojo. Like did you know it was the Democrats that were the slave owners? Did you know it was the Democrats that fought to keep salvery alive? Did you know after the South lost the War, it was the Democrats that created terrorist groups like the KKK to stop black voters and put fear into minorities? Did you know it was Democrats the created the Jim Crow laws, lynching laws and so on? Did you know that only about a third of all Democrat politicians voted for the Civil Rights Act? Apologies again, you took the horseshit from Democrats and believed it. People like you are a sorry excuse for being a human. What used to make humans great was, the need to be informed and want information. You fell right into the hands of the Democrats again. If you’re black you’re right back on a plantation again, this time it’s called the ‘Great Welfare’ plantation. They will give you all the government aid you need but oh boy don’t you ever not vote Democrat. If you do, you’ll see your welfare check go down and go away! Poor fools like you are being led up the ramp for slaughter! I for one, will smile and laugh the day it happens you all.

          • DanielHilliard

            wrong dipshit. Right wing morons are the reason that liberals left the old world and came to the new world… to get away from intolerant bible beating retards such as yourself.

          • danielhiliasdfr

            hows the new world working out you jack ass 17 Trillion in debt.

          • SomeGalNTx

            You have serious anger issues.

          • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

            And you ARE this ignorant. The TWO main tenets for the founding of America was:

            1. LIMITED GOVERNMENT, which you Socialist Terrorists are clearly bastardizing

            2. Freedom from Religious Persecution – the ability to believe in what/who you want without the government dictating your religion.

          • JSal

            Then stop dictating yours to the rest of us. Freedom of religion means freedom of all religions not just the Christian religion. It also means you can believe in no religion at all. What does limited Government mean? Please explain. It seems to mean “whatever I don’t agree with” I hear this term thrown around a lot with no explanation. Freedom means different things to different individuals, it’s not a narrow minded view of what someone else’s religious beliefs are. The US government should not be in the business of picking sides. It’s one thing to give a point of view from a religious perspective it is a whole other thing to suggest that laws should be written to support one religion’s beliefs over another.

            1. LIMITED GOVERNMENT, which you Socialist Terrorists are clearly bastardizing

            Explain what you think socialism is? Another word constantly regurgitated. Like unconstitutional.

          • Rawb

            Limited government is certainly not right wing ideology… Right wingers are the ones who cry for security and protection which enables the loss of rights. In the wise words of Ben Franklin “People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both”. Correct me if I’m wrong but this is certainly the case and since this is the case that means the government is NOT limited, like it should be. Time to wake up and smell the beans, the party system is just a simple disguise for the main agenda. No matter who you vote for the same shit is going to take place because they’re all just puppets.

          • JSal

            I am awake, thanks. I agree with you. I was not asking YOU for a definition. My post was not about you. I was asking the person that called someone a socialist terrorist & all the usual ignorance that comes with statements like that.

          • Rawb

            That response was to KMDay, as for my other comments towards you disregard them. You’re much more intelligent than I gave credit for, my apologies.

          • JSal

            Sorry…I missed that. Apology accepted.

          • lah

            uh, you do know that the democrats of the past were far different than the democrats of today, right? Same with the old republican party. You have to understand that the US political parties have never been static, they’ve always been somewhat changing entities. Yes, during the antebellum period, civil war, and the reconstruction era, many Southerners and pro-slavery people tended to be democrats, and many republicans tended to be against it, but again the parties do not really resemble the modern US political parties bearing the same names.

          • S8demon

            Funny how we find that most educated blacks, David Webb, Prof Ben Anderson, Alan West, Gondoliza Rice and others support the GOP, mostly uneducated, food stamp collecors, rioters etcetera supports the Dems. You have to be stupid to qualify being a democrap

          • SomeGalNTx

            Maybe not the GOP as it currently is, but the GOP thinks far more Constitutionally than the Dems do. By FAR. If the Dems don’t like something, they simply change the rules.
            Like Reid, who didn’t want to hear ANY ARGUMENTS against ANY BILLS on the floor, so he changed the rules on Filibustering. Now, time comes round when HE is not in charge? Wait and see how loud he squawks!
            The ONLY people I want in charge are those who see the Constitution as the ultimate law of the land and will not LIE when they take the Oath to uphold it.

          • JSal

            There has been an unprecedented number of Republican filibusters on Cabinet & judicial nominees for this President. About half of those filibusters have happened, since the initiation of the filibuster, to this President. That is all that Harry Reid did effects. It doesn’t effect bills or the passage of laws in Congress. The filibuster is not in the Constitution. Maybe you can tell us all what it is that has happened that is unconstitutional? Try to keep up.

          • Rawb

            You have to be joking.. apparently you haven’t heard of the NDAA? You know the act Obama signed in that allows them to label anyone they wish as a terrorist and jail them indefinitely with no trial? Try to keep up, you’re way behind.

          • JSal

            Ummm The Patriot Act? That was okay though right? In order for a bill to reach the Presidents Desk it has to get through both houses of congress. That includes the conservative majority in the House & the progressive majority in the Senate. Do you even understand how government works? You try to keep up. Nowhere in any of my comments did I mention the NDAA or how I felt about it. WTF are you talking about ? Do you have issues with comprehension? But the ACLU is against it therefore you must be for it.

            https://www.aclu.org/blog/tag/ndaa

          • Rawb

            smfh… ” Maybe you can tell us all what it is that has happened that is unconstitutional? Try to keep up.” – Jsal

            I then told you what is so unconstitutional and you go off on other shit? Get real it’s you who has no clue, the fact you don’t know the government is bought and paid for shows how little you TRULY know. Anyone with half a brain can see the corruption, loss of rights and just flat out how people are being screwed left and right. Bringing up the NDAA had to do with what you were talking about, please…. PLEASE try and keep up.

          • JSal

            “” Maybe you can tell us all what it is that has happened that is unconstitutional? Try to keep up.” – Jsal

            AGAIN, WTF are you talking about? My comments that you replied to were about the filibuster. What does the NDAA HAVE TO DO WITH THE FILIBUSTER? That is what SomeGalNTx was replying to & he replied like you did about some completely different subject. He mentioned the NDAA as some sort of liberal agenda when in truth it made it through both houses. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE FILIBUSTER. You try & keep up or at least read the previous posts. Like I said a problem with comprehension? What other shit? I replied to your post: HERE IT IS FOR YOU AGAIN.
            “Ummm The Patriot Act (signed into law by bush)? You know what that is right? That was okay though? In order for a bill to reach the Presidents Desk it has to get through both houses of congress (SO IT”S NOT A LIBERAL TAKEOVER OF YOUR FREEDOMS.) That includes the conservative majority in the House & the progressive majority in the Senate. Do you even understand how government works? You try to keep up. Nowhere in any of my comments (ABOUT THE FILIBUSTER) did I mention the NDAA or how I felt about it. WTF are you talking about ? Do you have issues with comprehension? But the ACLU is against it therefore you must be for it.

            https://www.aclu.org/blog/tag/…”

            WHICH APPLIES TO YOUR NDAA COMMENT. Now I now why you are shaking your head. You’re confused.

          • SomeGalNTx

            You are Clearly not paying attention, and a liberal. There is no point in trying to educate a liberal. They have different views of reality, and no willingness to see otherwise.
            For instance, it is a violation of the first amendment to restrict the speech of the people. However, now it is a federal CRIME to protest anywhere NEAR the president OR any of his Secret Service members.
            When a president can decide that entire segments of society are exempt from laws, that is a violation of the constitution.
            You will never concede that, however, as you have to defend your guy to the death, even if you are wrong.

          • JSal

            You clearly have not addressed the argument I have made & as usual because someone does not agree with you they are clearly a liberal. What ever. You obviously can’t face facts & try to deflect the argument to some other BS nonsense you are regurgitating. I just stated the truth. It has nothing to do with what the hell nonsense you are talking about. I paid attention to you’re comment & answered with the truth. The Filibuster is a parliamentary procedure & is not in the constitution. It has been used an overwhelmingly amount of times against this presidents cabinet & judicial nominations & that is all that has been effected by what Harry Reid did. I doubt you even know what the constitution states. The bill you are speaking of was overwhelmingly passed by the House of Representative (which has a conservative majority). I don’t know if this is good or bad, but I already seem to know more than you do on the subject.

            “The law purports to update an old law, Section 1752 of Title 18 of the United States Code, that restricted areas around the president, vice president, or any others under the protection of the Secret Service. The original law was enacted in 1971 and amended in 2006.”

            http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2012/03/the_anti_protest_bill_signed_by_barack_obama_is_a_quiet_attack_on_free_speech_.html

            Educate yourself before spouting off. You don’t know me. Try not to act like you do. It makes you look & sound like a close minded zealot.

          • glebealyth

            How can one protest near a Secret Service member?

            If one knows who they are, they are no longer secret, surely; and if one does not know who they are, one cannot be convicted of the crime.

          • lah

            I’d like to inform you what you are doing is generalizing, and even then it’s not a very good one. The fact that you say that one has to be stupid in order to qualify being a democrat is quite silly. What of all the, using your own words, stupid, lower class white people who support the GOP? Does that mean you have to be a stupid to be a republican? You can’t just point out one group of individuals within a group and then say, “Wow, those specific people in group x are stupid, clearly anyone who is part of group x is stupid as well”. I know very intelligent people on both sides, and I know quite idiotic people on both sides. So please, sir don’t say all democrats are stupid.

          • the one

            Are you able to demonstrate for me any real difference between these parties as they exist now? These paradigms were created to control the population through the Hegelian Dialectic.

          • DaWholeTruth

            GOP (now) infested with RINOS, basically ‘libtard light’

            Gowdy, Cruz and Paul are the only right-wingers I can tolerate in the Senate, the rest are all too busy fellatng Dear Leader.

          • lah

            well, of course there are differences their political ideologies. Republicans tend to prefer a smaller government, less taxes, a less regulated free-market economy, their whole shtick is basically being able to function and survive on your own, without gov. assistance. Democrats tend to be the opposite of that, ideologically speaking. And, again, these distinctions have developed over a long time since the birth of the nation, back with the federalists and the democratic-republican party.

          • glebealyth

            Exactly the same argument is used by those who refuse today to be made responsible for slavery. They are not the same people who carried it out.

            What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

          • JSal

            Here are the voting numbers in congress. There was resistance on both sides. From the Dixiecrats down south & from Republicans also. The Dixiecrats for the most part became Republicans after the Civil Rights act & the South went from being mostly Democrat to Republican. The numbers:

            House of Representatives:
            Democrats for: 152
            Democrats against: 96
            Republicans for: 138
            Republicans against: 34

            Senate:
            Democrats for: 46
            Democrats against: 21
            Republicans for: 27
            Republicans against: 6

            Teddy Roosevelt – Republican:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt

            No resemblance to the Republican party of today either.

          • SomeGalNTx

            So the way to “catch up” is to do unto others? To destroy the job hopes of an entire new generation of South Africans, simply because they were born white? Would you endorse, taking every last bit of money from every white person in the country and redistributing only to the black people, as setting things right? At what point will things be “set right”?
            Wealth redistribution according to skin color, and that isn’t considered racism? Really?
            Here in the states, apparently, it isn’t EVER gonna be right, no matter how much race based “affirmative action” has been brought to bear. Any amount is never enough when revenge is the goal.

          • JSal

            Imagine this is you getting this treatment:

            How long does it take to rid your mind of that treatment.

          • JSal

            Click the link above the video for more relevant videos.

          • itisso

            Learn to spell, buddy.

          • DanielHilliard

            learn to shut the fuck up if you have nothing to say buddy.

          • SomeGalNTx

            Neither do you. Nothing of value, that is.

          • ApartheidNEEDED

            Daniel, you make some great points here. I dont know about the blacks in south africa, but if they are anything like the blacks in the US dont you think Apartheid is necessary?

          • S8demon

            Hey liberal arse, if you don’t know what truly took place, rather keep your ignorance to yourself. You don’t know what the word apartheid means, you don’t know what the system was about. You fellow brothers now rape babies, cut unborn babies from the mothers wombs, rape that lil innocent person as well (o, I forgot, you lib tarts don’t see the unborn as a human, so it would be an acceptable way of life.Maybe you should move there quickly and join in the fun, cut out a few and have your own. More people, black and white have been killed since 1994, under your favorite ANC government of thugs than in the 100 years prior.

          • foolofthemedia

            more like an anchor tied to their ankle.

          • lsksmash

            If ya’ll are still bitter about it, it is alive today as it was yesterday… it ain’t yet dead and forgotten. You are in the US and you still mourning…

          • DanielHilliard

            i’m not talking about slavery retard. I’m talking about apartheid in South Africa. have you ever heard of it?

          • faxdoc

            DH you sound like one of those little white kids who learned how to talk black so as to be one of them. Your internet rantings don’t scare anyone unless you’re someone like me who pauses in disbelief at the way some whites think their guilt and black-love somehow make them one of ‘them’. Unfortunately, you’re not alone in this illusion which will make it increasingly difficult for REAL WHITES to continue to live in some semblance of safety and peace. Do us all a favor and visit Mr. Mandella soon. puh-leeeze

          • DanielHilliard

            and you’re a REAL WHITE? Lol. More like REAL WHITE SUPREMACIST. At least have some self-respect and just come out and admit that you’re a white supremacist and you believe whites to be the supreme race. Don’t be a coward and hide your true beliefs. It’s not called guilt. It’s called… no matter what… no matter what the crime statistics say.. .no matter what the incarceration statistics say…. equality. Equality for every race. That’s what it is about. You think it’s guilt because you’re a white supremacist… so i must feel guilty to want to give “them” equality. No. Equality is how it should be. But I also understand the human nature of a race of people whose families have been subjected to human rights violations for 50 years and their inclination to keep a little more for themselves. But why am i even explaining this to you? You’re clearly an idiot.

          • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

            I have heard about Mandela’s ANC-MK and his and Winnie’s necklacing of many blacks and whites……. have you?

          • lsksmasb

            Yes, sure he has, does this statement have a point. Why was the mk formed? Find the answer to that first?

          • lsksmash

            Dude… I am very proud to call you a fellow human brother (being), black or white – it is truth you stand for and it hurts when it hits home… never waiver

          • glebealyth

            Aprtheid in SA?

            Isn’t that the system where, currently, it is legal to advertise jobs which include the information, “Whites need not apply”?

            Of course it is.

          • James Lovelace

            “Nobody living today had anything to do with slavery, but leftists still bitch about it.”

            They only bitch about slavery when the masters were white christians. The UN 1951 report on slavery stated that under islam “slavery is legal”. In Mauritania and Sudan, muslims are to this day keep black africans as slaves. But the Left and the anti-slavery movement are totally silent about it. The Left is not interested in slavery, but only in getting more power for themselves.

            http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/31/us-un-rights-mauritania-idUSBRE99U15J20131031

          • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

            The vast majority of those who are forced in to slavery today = BLACKS……

          • glebealyth

            Similarly, Daniel, the slave trade all happened a long time ago, yet you are content to try to make ALL white people feel guilty about it.

            Typical liberal hypocrite.

          • Kojo

            Murder, crime and drug use runs rampant today by every walk of life including government officials and yet so many white right wingers are content to make all Black people feel guilty about that. Go figure.

          • elmarcito

            I doubt they feel guilty… Have you been to South Central?

          • DaWholeTruth

            Kojo, if you looked at percentages of the population and crimes committed you’d know your statement is PATENTLY false, but here have another glass of Kool-Aid Comrade….

          • SomeGalNTx

            Kojo Here in America, the same is true, except the White people are made to feel guilty about because, gosh, you know slavery and all the white privilege.
            Sorry…I don’t buy that the son of a lawyer who joined a gang, got mixed up in drugs, and arrested is a victim of the system just because he is black. He is the victim of his own stupidity.
            I am not going to be made to feel guilt that this kid threw away his future, nor would I accept his utterances that he is owed a break. Nobody *owes anyone anything. Not anymore.

          • DanielHilliard

            you make no sense.

          • glebealyth

            You have a lifelong familiarity with that state, I am sure.

            I bow to your greater experience in the area.

          • S8demon

            This fool does not even know hat the first slave owner in the USA was a black man. He does not know that black dictators sold blacks as slaves to line their own pockets. An he calls other people fools. Oh he wears a tie, he knots it himself, so he must be a clever democrap

          • Jennifer

            he was also given a chance to leave prison if he denounced violence. he didn’t. it kind of goes against the pretty picture the west has painted of him.

          • lsksmash

            He didn’t because he knew that seemingly that was the only thing the racist South Africans were willing to understand (violence)

          • itisso

            You have real anger issues and your comments are not appropriate.

          • DanielHilliard

            Are you so stupid that you really think that American slavery has anything to do with what is being discussed regarding South Africa and the laws there? Your post is so retarded that it’s mind numbing. And I can’t believe that there is 89 other idiots who would “like” your post. Sad state of affairs in this world as stupidity is rampant. Doll. why don’t you have a little history lesson? 1948-1994. You don’t know anyone who was alive in 1994? You brainless bird. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid

          • V the K

            Insults and tantrums. It’s what the left is all about, really.

          • Leroy Jenkins

            STFU

          • glebealyth

            QED.

          • Acts for Me

            Wow. Wikipedia?

          • Chad Wiggins

            the difference Daniel, that u seem to be incapable of grasping is this. its not whether whites treated blacks unjust or blacks treated whites unjust… its the the sheer fact that mandella in this country (america) has been revered as a peace seeking, humble, non violent, old man… Lie after lie….. he was a tyrant a menace… in my opinion, all hatred is wrong.. thats what makes someone like Martin luther king a true hero… he never stoooped to dirty levels of his persecutors.. he sought for peace, and lived his life in unison with what he sought… mandella being falsely placed on a pedestal demeans everything a real hero like martin luther king did… u cant justify one groups tyrannical behavior, by calling the white victim a crybaby, solely because someone of their like color has been just as ugly at a prior point in time to those of black decent… if u have to bomb train stations, where innocent children are residing…. then imo theres no justification for those evil actions… then imo u r a tyrant, and u r every bit as bad as the evil you’re fighting… and to hold anyone who has committed these heinous acts against innocent women and children, is an utter garbage campaign to distort truth solely because our media in this country, likes the end game…

          • jSal

            Explain war, please. Do you believe there are just wars? Do innocent people die in just wars?

          • lsksmash

            Well… well… well… it worked did it not? Apartheid is gone. Sometimes war is the answer…. we see it in all the religious books the white man gave us. How many Israelites enemies did Israel fight in the Bible? Don’t get it confused, it seems like the more the people spoke against apartheid the more white people felt they needed to be looked up and beaten up. Children lost bread winners, people where been abused physical… hell, he just retaliated.

          • glebealyth

            Do the ends ALWAYS justify the means?

            Go take your whine to the wives and children who lost breadwinners because Winnie and Nelson organized their necklaces.

          • SomeGalNTx

            I am scrolling through, trying to find ONE SINGLE POST that indicates that people don’t know what Apartheid WAS, or that they SUPPORTED it. Can’t find it. Hmm….
            Being alive in South Africa as a baby does not imply that one CONDONED it. The fact that one’s parents did benefit from something that was WRONG does not make them an EVIL PERSON who should be PUNISHED for a crime against humanity in which they took no part.
            There is so much hatred coming out of some posts, who wish others to “pay” for their parents crimes, that I cannot believe they stand behind that thought pattern. Should the sins of the father be visited upon the child? I say no.
            Let it end. Let the hate end.

          • lsksmash

            No dear, affirmative action is not wishing someone suffering due to their parents crimes, it is Robin Hood style communism, take from the rich and give to the poor. Reason being that the white crop of South African’s were not going to help the black children of South Africa to even a maize meal if it is not removed from them… hell what greed, 19% of the population owning most the land in South Africa – greedy bastards

          • SomeGalNTx

            If one cannot get a JOB due to the fact that they are categorically excluded in revenge for what was done when they were infants, they do suffer for lack of a JOB. No Job=no money. See how that works?
            So it IS all about revenge.

          • catadawg

            An argument always gains validity when Wikipedia is your source of reference. BAWAWAAHAHAHHAH! Daniel you may be functioning with an IQ of 60, but I admire your gumption. Keep on trotting your beaten ass out to the center of the ring and take your beating. Man, what a mouth breather!

          • DanielHilliard

            firstly. the wikipedia link wasn’t a source numbnuts. it was a reference so people like yourselves who have no clue what apartheid was can give education a shot. secondly. wikipedia is more factual than anything you’ve ever read in your life, but I guess any reference material that doesn’t feature an article about how black boogeymen are coming after you and all other white people probably doesn’t do it for you. lol. but if i were you i wouldn’t worry… that bulldog standing next to you in your profile pic would scare any boogeyman off. ;) you’re safe.

          • catadawg

            Sorry she isn’t your type (that would 350lb pre-op transvestite). Danny boy, if you could lip read your way through a Dr. Suess book, you may elevate your IQ above that magic 60 number. You were the one quoting Wikipedia, thus the term “reference”. When did I reference black bogeyman? The whole fixation of you being attacked by a black man is deeply disturbing, you may want to see a shrink. Danny, do us a favor, break out your Crayola 64 pack, scrawl out a note (remember not to hold it like you are holding your tiny manhood) and go away. Child troll. And how did you get a blow up doll into South Africa, cause judging from your interaction on this sight, no human would want to associate with you.

          • maxdon1978

            I hope you realize Daniel is talking about South Africa and not America. Apartheid (segregation) just ended in Africa less than 20 something years ago. Read up on history first buddy. BTW, Jim Crow/segregation just ended in America less than 40 years ago. That’s not long ago…. buddy.

          • Kev

            Laura this isn’t about slavery, it’s about civil and human rights, segregation was all over the south in the 60′s and there are millions of people still ‘living today’ who were adversely affected by it. Are you really so naïve that you believe African Americans ‘aren’t denied anything’? If so you probably believe you are equally free and that all doors are open to you too…..

          • Broadus-Muskauski Deborah

            Sad, you don’t get it. It’s not “something that happened a long time ago.” It is an ongoing process.

          • junkie_rock_star

            Actually most whites in south africa are employed. Whites have the LOWEST unemployment rate of all population groups. So yes, they’re cry babies.. the constant bleating about affirmative polices which doesn’t even affect most of them is getting tiring. In a country where unemployment is sitting at 25%, whites can’t be guaranteed jobs like in the old days. Are you actually from South Africa Laura? Do you know that most whites still live in their nice suburbs, most are employed and most live fairly comfortable lives? And most blacks still live in shanty towns and are either unemployed or have labourer jobs? The level of economic inequality is still massive, and while I don’t agree that the current policies are helping anyone (black nor white), we can’t pretend that some sort of action is not needed to uplift the majority from their squalor. Or we can just leave them there until we have another revolution, and there won’t be any Mandela the next time to calm people down and preach reconciliation.

          • Nienie

            Unemployment is just above 50%

          • junkie_rock_star

            50% is probably closer to the truth yes, which makes my point even more valid.

          • lsksmash

            What is Helen Zilla doing?

          • brian buckley

            duh.. not referring to now but the many decades of discrimination…that’s what the revolution was for..to change all that n it did.

          • Anthony Lock

            I lived in the Gambia, West Africa for 6 years. An enjoyable time, but what amuses me (Maybe wrongly) is that the slaves traded by the colonists were bought from Black tribes that had capture rival tribes. So basically, the slave trade was enhanced and encouraged by Black capturing and trading Blacks. Why is nothing ever mentioned of this. Oh! of course, that would be racist !!!

          • Hmmm

            Laura your advise to Daniel comes too late.

          • smith

            and that is the tragedy of your logic, when you refer to slavery as something that happened “a long time ago”, is that intentional or just plain ignorance to neglect JIM CROW which existed within many of OUR life times or that would make it too real?

          • MEL

            Thanks Laura. Most Blacks would like to omit the fact that their Black neighbouring tribes in Africa were at the front of the slave trade, capturing Blacks and selling them to the white slave traders. Daniel might be ignorant of that fact as he also seems ignorant of civility and good English, thus reverting to base gutter language with embolden print to emphasize his frustration with his inabilities to better express himself. I’m sure he could do better, if he tried.

          • outis

            Ironically, American Blacks are quite aware of the role of tribal warfare on supplying the slave trade. What American whites like to forget is that most white Europeans belonged to someone until a few hundred years ago, and might be captured and enslaved into the Byzantine Empire until the last century. The distinction between slaves and “indentured servants” wasn’t formalized until a slave (white and black) revolt in colonial Virginia made it useful to invent modern racism. In fact, Pocohantas’ village was destroyed because a bunch of white slaves ran away and took refuge there during a winter famine in the colony. In the spring, their masters demanded the return of their slaves, and when the Natives said that they had been granted refuge, their masters mounted a massacre to recapture their white slaves.

          • MEL

            Interesting history. I think I remember some of this from a college class 50 years ago. Thanks for this, much appreciated.

          • Urbs

            Regardless, the tensions were not fomented out of thin air, it has less to do with who is “responsible” for past events and more to do with how little is being done to repair the massive imbalance in geopolitical social horizons still very much alive today. Racism is well documented in American and African History, and the Scars are still sore. These same scars are still being pricked at by the ignorance of entire nations to recognize their role in perpetuating their privileges over various ethnic bodies for no other reason than racial prejudice.

            Though violence on both ends is a disturbing site to be certain, this was by no means an unforseen consequence of white imperialism, and I can only view the coming historical backlash and subsequent white outrage without recognizing its roots as ironic when watching the events unfold.

          • African American

            African Americans??? This is not America hence no African Americans. Only Africans. Learn ur shit first

          • giles

            That’s a cop out ha ha.

          • Colonized Taino

            African Americans did not travel to the Americas willingly, on some expedition to colonize, enslave and plunder. They were stolen from their homeland and forcibly taken to what is now the US. They DESERVE what they have, and what they have is very little. They deserve much, much more. On the other hand, true native South Africans owe white European colonized who oppressed them for centuries NOTHING. Be thankful whites were not forced on an exodus out of South Africa after the fall of apartheid.

          • allessior

            But we must be a racist nation because we voted BOZO in twice by comfortable margins. This is called, neacrifil-Racism, where, because BOZO is black (or at least half black), we felt compelled to vote for him for fear of being called racist by the other nations of the world and the media. Neacrifil-Racists subconsciously reveal their racism when they say, “How could I be racist, I voted for BOZO, didn’t I?” What the Neacrifil-Racists don’t realize is that by making these statements, a natural language exposure occurs, whereby words such “racist” used in the context of voting more than imply that the user is racist because of the history of black voter suppression, and the inability of blacks to vote by law. So the bottom line is, that for peoples of the non-African tribes, like those of us with Olive skin who become darker than dark, and like all Caucasians, one CANNOT be a non-racist, and, no matter what you say or do will change that. Any words we use are sub-consciously racist, and any non-words we use are racist. In fact, when we are born, it is automatically assumed that the racism is either genetic or congenital or both. And although we were taking craps in bushes and hills of our respective “old countries”, we did better in America and other places than people of African ancestry because we were not born with the stigma of slavery. Most importantly, even though we were peasant slaves in our old countries, and even though we had persecutions, that these don’t count, and, we should just shut the hec up and swallow it. Simply put, we are nothing, we are pigs, we are skunk apes, and we just don’t matter anymore. The tide is turning, as we see in South Africa, where because of black rule, things are so much better for the economy (not) and for all races (not).

          • Samantha G

            Why calling a person Idiot? We all have our own opinion

        • stmaybe

          lol @ punishing people who had nothing to do with past crimes and further claiming they’re justifiable. Among the educated that will get you labelled ‘hypocritical.’

          • DanielHilliard

            i said stop crying. i don’t know what you’re talking about.

          • glebealyth

            …i don’t know what you’re talking about.

            Nor, it appears, anything else!

          • DanielHilliard

            hypocritical? LOL at taking advantage of laws that favor your race and completely disregard a majority race…. and not crying when your race is running the show…. and then as soon as you lose power and get a little bit inconvenienced…. crying about how unfairly you’re being treated. Go educate yourself and then re-evaluate who the hypocrite is.

          • Pac

            Goddamn you are fucking retarded. Your posts make absolutly no sense whatsoever. Please just go lie down on the highway.

          • DanielHilliard

            learn how to read. educate yourself. then come back and give it another shot!

          • ricky

            i cant even see why people would try to reason with such an un intelligent thing as daniel ,what an absolute grunt you are boy.

          • glebealyth

            Which CURRENT laws do you have in mind, Daniel?
            Let us know and we will start complaining about them, at least as much as you are complaining about the “Whites need not apply” advertisements for jobs in SA.

        • Tim Pierre

          This amazing logic is like punishing Whites today for slavery then. Whaaaaa I wants mah reparations!

          Long story short: I hope you get hit the face by a bus :D

          • DanielHilliard

            well. i won’t. and you’ll still be retarded.

          • Jb Batt

            You are the posterchild for birth control.

          • glebealyth

            Post-natal abortion is indicated.

          • Boo Hoo

            Tim, it’s called White Supremacy. It’s the phenomenon that allows whites like you to trick yourselves into believing that as long as blacks aren’t being hauled in ships to foreign lands, whipped, raped, and killed, then of course equality must exist. We don’t blame you, we don’t hate you, but as long as you choose to be ignorant toward legitimate repercussions to actions under the umbrella of white supremacy (which you enjoy the benefits of), then no, we do not feel sorry for you getting a taste of your own medicine.

          • Ray

            White privilege is a myth.

        • Palesa Khambi

          thank you Daniel

        • Neocortex

          Spot on! Excellent post.
          Stumbled onto this site by accident but am glad I did.
          Now we know where all the racists who fled SA post.
          At first I thought these posts were tongue in cheek but now I see I’m in the company of some seriously delusional folk.
          Ciao.

          • Michael Modes

            Looking at black people objectively as human beings and not Gods or icons is not permitted by racists like yourself. Sorry.

        • missmasher

          well it was good “white” people who helped free Nelson Mandela so they were thanked with the deaths of white people?! Not all white people are bad!? or racist 2 wrongs don’t make a right!

        • gobnait

          The very injustices against one segment of the population that you decry you now applaud when applied towards another. It’s painfully obvious who the real racist is.

          • DanielHilliard

            all i’m saying is stop crying. that’s all. stop crying. you’re still crying. do you understand my post? stop crying.

          • dms0001

            Others will cease, once you stop whining.

          • J Simson

            White males in South Africa are not crying. They are leaving.

            It’s called a brain drain. Who gains? UK and Australia mostly.

          • DanielHilliard

            Youre flattering yourself by including yourself in this “brain drain.” You have yet to say anything to indicate youve got one.

          • glebealyth

            A condition you recognize so easily from personal experience, Daniel?

          • J Simson

            Insults are the best argument you have? Is this the best you can do?

          • Ann

            Sounds like you are looking in the mirror and talking to yourself with that comment.

          • glebealyth

            Stop projecting, Daniel. It is unseemly.

          • Twopennysworth

            And Australia has not dropped flags to half mast because of their shame. They virtually wiped out the ethnic population who, tragically, did not have time to find their own Nelson Mandela. Shame on you.

          • Jet

            No, it’s called “I don’t have all of the power anymore so I’m going to go somewhere where my demographic still dominates.” You see the same crap in the United States. People whining because everyone else is starting to get a fair shake and they don’t like it. Anti-racism is the same thing as anti-white in the minds of so many people it’s disgusting. Mandela fought to end racism, and instead of going on a tirade of revenge afterward, like so many white mobs in the past after legislative victories and defeats of racist laws alike, he was the better person.

            The frustration of people like Daniel is caused by the hypocrisy in which people view the efforts of blacks. Run away from your country if you want to. The escapism won’t last long. The white race is being absorbed by the world no matter where you go. Call it God or coincidental justice. It’s happening.

          • BamaPhone

            It’s funny when non-whites try to scare whites by saying that whites are “disappearing.” Especially considering that the majority of abortions are black, and that black on black violence is rampant. Go kill yourselves some more. My wife is from Sudan; she’s blacker than you’ll ever hope to be, and she’s not a critical theorist like you, she and I have a great life together, because we don’t recoil from truth, such as: it’s not about race, it’s about ideology. You leftists are a dying breed.

          • DanielHilliard

            hahahhaaaaa!!! she’s blacker than you’ll ever hope to be??? you made my night with your retarded babbling and rambling on. thanks!!!

          • SomeGalNTx

            Blacks DO have a fair shake here in the US. UTILIZING it is the problem. It is a CULTURAL problem. Generational welfare, where it is taught that the government can, and SHOULD take care of you, and however many babies you have. This goes on in every race here.
            We have racially based organizations specific to blacks, but God forbid there be a NAAWP, a White Democratic Caucus or anything of the sort.
            Unless and until EVERYONE is willing to put their fists down, and go to work on the problem, it will NEVER be solved.
            One cannot continue to blame the game, especially when some people playing the same game WIN.
            Kids today need to pull their pants up, drop their entitlement attitudes and dig some ditches to see how hard their grandparents had to work to make a dollar, instead of thinking they are OWED a living by everyone else working.

            And “the white race is being absorbed by the world”? What the heck? There are Muslims and blacks in Britain and Ireland. That doesn’t mean the world is absorbing the Whites. It means the world is spreading out! Sheesh.
            Or do you mean that the disappearance of the white race is on the horizon, like this is a good thing? Can you clarify?

          • Ray

            No, they are fleeing genocide.

          • Jet

            Sure.

          • White African

            And Black Educated South Africans

          • Annie

            The only one “crying” is you, Daniel.

          • John

            Says “stop crying” as he proceeds to whine, rant, and ramble for the better part of 3 hours…

          • Ann

            Sounds like you are the one crying. Something must have happened in your childhood to make you so bitter and lacking the ability to form cohesive sentences without the use of profanity.

          • DanielHilliard

            i’m not applauding it. i’m just telling you to stop crying about it. were you crying for equality when it was white preference over blacks? no. you weren’t. so stop crying for equality now when you find you yourself holding the short end of the stick. very simple. VERY. FUCKING. SIMPLE. not racist. simple. you wanted a preferential system, now you got one.

          • John K

            What a punk I am guessing that in real life you tread lightly and go through life head down hoping that no one notices you. By the time you get home you are so ashamed of yourself you come online and lash out. Absolutely pathetic

          • DanielHilliard

            actually I wouldn’t have a problem putting my fist through your ugly face.

          • SomeGalNTx

            Right after he gets home from school, where they kicked his butt on the playground….

          • dms0001

            Go tell your Mamma about it.

          • glebealyth

            The black Africans wanted an equal system.
            Why are they now operating a preferential one?

          • J Simson

            Because they are no better than the Boers who ruled before them.

          • Jetblakc

            That’s the only true thing that you’ve said on this entire thread. Racists of any color suck. Like you.

          • Annie

            “We” wanted a preferential system……yes, but we preferred qualified by skills, not qualified by skin color. Sometimes people like you, Daniel ,remind me of people abused as children in the most horrific way who grow up only to be abusers themselves. Instead of making that mental connection that if you didn’t like it being done to you, don’t do it to anyone else. You do not have the mental tools to break the cycle of abuse. Mostly because your handlers, the black & white dems, like you that way. You’re still a slave….black or white, you are still a mental slave.

          • J Simson

            Well said. The biggest racists today are liberals who cloak their racism in progressiveness.

          • Jsal

            Please explain. Bet you can’t.

        • ttyler5

          Flagged. Your foul mouth fits your empty head.

          • DanielHilliard

            keep going around flagging people. time well spent in your pathetic life.

        • John K

          Why is there always at least one scumbag that doesn’t get it but thinks he does and then post garbage like Mr Hilliard just did? The point numb nuts is that it is wrong for anyone to do these things to someone else- period.

          Such a simple fact apparently escapes you. The best part is you show your arse and really look childish.

          What the blacks are doing now in SA is every bit as bad as what the whites did and as long as fools are willing to give a pass to a race bad things will continue to happen.

          No man or women should be harmed or wronged for their race, religion, sexual orientation or beliefs. Good people must get together and focus on the enemies of freedom and liberty and criminals that victimize the innocent

          • DanielHilliard

            You don’t get it you mug. I agree with you. It’s wrong. But what black are doing now IS NOT as bad as what was done to them… first off… so stop playing the fool. Secondly… while I agree that everyone should be living in equality…. if you sat silently, without the objection of inequality, and enjoyed the benefits of apartheid when your people were on top….you just look like a bit of a poor sport when you’re crying out for equality now that you’re not getting all the breaks. or were you to dense to pick that up from my previous posts? you dense little twat. My point is…equality always…. or shut the f*ck up. very simple little boy. understand?

          • J Simson

            Granted that it is not as bad. But does it make it right?

            Does it make it moral?

            Is it good for South Africa? Is brain drain serving the interests of South Africa?

            Is highly qualified doctors, engineers, lawyers, teachers, professors leaving South Africa good for South Africa?

          • http://plancksconstant.org/ Bernie from Planck’s Constant

            As for your assertion that “what black are doing now IS NOT as bad as what was done to them,” you obviously ignore history: Presently in South Africa, a genocide is being perpetrated against the white population. Since the end of white rule in 1994 more than 68,000 white South Africans have been murdered while less than 7,600 blacks were murdered in all the years by the Apartheid government. In fact, blacks killed more blacks during during the Apartheid era than the whites ever killed.

            Read Absolutely Shocking News From South Africa: White Man Arrested For Murder

          • MSELL

            How do you know who sat quietly and did nothing? You don’t know anyone on a personal level to pass judgement. Offer your opinion when it is supported by facts.

          • glebealyth

            Offer your opinion when it is supported by facts.

            WHAT! And destroy the whole ethos of liberalism!?

          • DanielHilliard

            This entire article is an opinion not supported by facts. Mandela was on a tiny cell on Robben Island with 1 visitor a year and youre attributing all bombings during that time to him. You just dont like blacks. Admit it.

          • glebealyth

            You seem to just not like people, Daniel.

          • J Simson

            You don’t like whites. You hate the West.

            Admit it.

          • Annie

            Equality is not defined by having 10 kids by 10 different daddy’s and raping ALL the people of their hard earned money by working the system. I call that “getting even” with people who had nothing to do with segregation world wide and in fact….those being raped financially are the very people who fought to free the slaves and give the blacks a voice. So look around and you tell me who got screwed and who’s truly for “equality for ALL”? But relax all you liberal blacks….you’re right there with the whites now because all your money will now/has been…going to illegals of all walks of life. It’s going overseas to terrorist who would love to see blacks dead just as much as they would like to see whites dead and that includes Africa. You had your “ha ha” moment, but the jokes really on you in the end.

          • Pragashnie Naidoo

            Hi Daniel. I really do get what you are saying. If there was no affirmative action then there will still be an imbalance in the country. Unfortunately apartheid is still practise here in the work place. We experience it first hand (I am indian south African) in my husbands workplace. but with that being said, I have friends from all race groups and we can see the change from 20years ago. I love my country and I am proud to be south African. Unfortunately if you are in politics you are a scumbag and you definitely have be a Mandela or a Ghandi to look pass politics and be a humanitarian. every government has some kind of corruption. People need to also understand if Mandela did what he did in his young days, was definitely out of being foolish like all young people are and it is was a reaction to apartheid. He probably did learn from what he did ‘wrong’ or else he would not have been the man he became. And trust me……affirmative action is mild compare to what we experience (I don’t agree with it) during apartheid. as a child I was exposed to tear gases in riots etc. Also people must know that our country was going into bankruptcy with the previous government, so in order to start trading and to hide their own actions they had no choice but to release Mandela and lift the sanctions. 20years is still young for a democratic country who has been under apartheid reigns since the overseas settlers came here and claimed it as their land.

          • DaveM

            Daniel, have you ever been to SA? You appear to be very knowledgable about the whole deal.

        • Richard

          Its about fairness and balance not punishment for what our ancestors did.

        • iwannabefree

          This is the kind of idiot thinking that is destroying America. I am white. My ancestry came out of murderous persecution by Catholics. Should I hate all Catholics now? Should I seek “justice”? Such stupidity.

        • glebealyth

          WE did not treat them badly, our ancestors did!

          As you, in common with the rest of us, probably have a murderer in your ancestry, I suggest you turn yourself in, IMMEDIATELY, to the local police to be punished for it.

          • J Simson

            The liberal thing to do is to punish the children for the sins of the fathers.

            Marxism Inc.

          • Scott

            Wow, Well all I got from this lovely argument is that apparently Its easy and awesome if your white in the United States and shitty to be white in South Africa. Got lucky on that one- White in the ol USA.

          • J Simson

            Israel. I am Jewish

          • FLANON

            All White’s in South Africa should pack up & leave. Go to the US or UK or Australia.
            I’d give it 5 years max & the World would be doing another Live Aid but for South Africa. The place would implode.

          • Andrew Sullivan

            what mr hillard forgets is most slaves were sold by there own kind and people in the uk were sold as slaves long before the slave trade that he speaks about nice one mr hillard as for crying yes for the injustice the only thing thats changed in sa is the colour of the perpetrators skin

          • BamaPhone

            Exactly. It’s all about perpetuating the cycle of racism. Pretty lucrative for Mandela, Hitler, etc. The fact is though, it’s not about race. It’s about ideology. We hear fits of rage from the left when a liberal black is criticized, but when a conservative black speaks, they are an “Uncle Tom.”

          • Jsal

            & the opposite is true for conservatives.

          • JSal

            Yeah & corporations are people too!

        • V the K

          Typical leftist response; reject the facts and respond with an emotional tantrum laced with the F-word. Extra points for screaming in ALLCAPS with EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • Paul Linger

          Nasty piece of work.

        • John

          ^lol what an idiot. Do you even have job?

        • Mitch Mitchell

          That has to be the stupist and most childish remark I have read in a very long time. Grow up, or die off, please.

          • DanielHilliard

            why don’t you shut the fuck up? how about that?

        • zee788

          Who is ‘we’? there is no we. There are individual blacks and individual whites. If you want to punish all whites like this instead of only the guilty ones, how exactly are you any different?

          • DanielHilliard

            oh really?? because when I was in South Africa, I saw white entrances and colored entrances. i guess they adjudged the individuals character prior to sending them through the entrances right?

          • zee788

            In other words you admit you advocate collective guilt just as much as the apartheid government. Checkmate.

          • JSal

            I think he is advocating actions as apposed to inaction. The argument that a snowflake is the same thing as an avalanche that a lot of people seem to be making here is ludicrous.

        • elmarcito

          You’re comment is truly sad. In other words, it’s not about fighting for equality but rather just getting even… I’m sure you’re a Liberal Democrat.

          • JSal

            What bills have recent Republicans brought to the floor that deal with equality?

        • Spidey

          Hey moron did you know the first slave owner in America was a black man? His name was Anthony Johnson. Go look it up and you will see black people put their own kind in chains. Now do you feel stupid?

          • DanielHilliard

            why are you talking about America you retard??? You should feel stupid because we’re talking about South African apartheid, not American slavery. You’re a f*ck moron, you f*cking Mr. Bean. The problem with people like you, is you don’t know how to feel stupid. You live your whole life being stupid, so you can’t possibly feel stupid, because you’ve never felt smart. You don’t even know the difference between smart and stupid because you’ve been stupid your entire life. What….the f*ck….. does a black slave owner in America… have to do with apartheid in South Africa and the oppression of blacks??? It wasn’t slavery you mouth breather..

        • Guest

          U need your meds Daniel….and was wonder if you have ever graced our shores to witness what is real…

        • Alison Clark

          U need your meds Daniel….and was wondering if you have ever graced our shores to witness what is real…

        • Ryan

          So doing wrong in return makes it okay? When does it stop?

        • d taylor

          eye for an eye Daniel? Lets look at your pristine track record shall we. Loser.

          • DanielHilliard

            Pristine track record? Who said that? If I punch someone in the face… I expect them or one of their friends to punch me back. If I burn someone’s house down…I expect them or someone in their family to burn my house down. If I kill a man’s child… I certainly expect him to hunt me and my children. I certainly wouldn’t cry as it happened and been like “WTF???? WHAHAAAAAAAA. I don’t deserve this!!!!” =’( and then get angry at those people for following through with the obvious repercussions. You want to know who screwed South African whites of today? South African whites of 50 years ago who created apartheid. What’s happening today is simply the natural and obvious reaction. White people playing the victim makes me laugh. Deal with the world…. the same way the South African blacks had to deal with apartheid.

        • Matthew Engel

          Daniel you fucking spook dick sucker go shoot up some smack and die FAG!

        • Zoeker2012

          Face the reality – drum beating Zulu idiots can’t run a country. You can steal a country, but you can’t run it. You can cus, scream, call names, do whatever you want. In the end, all the whites will leave your now-God forsaken country and it will descend to an unimaginable depth.

          So, celebrate the life of your terrorist-king. In the end, you will be blaming whitey for the complete collapse of your joke of a country.

          • JSal

            Racism is dead!

          • Zoeker2012

            Racism isn’t really dead. If you know anything about South African culture, it’s quite alive and well, on both sides of the argument. Instead of pro-white institutionalized racism, it’s now pro-black institutionalized racism.

            The hapless klotocrats presently “running” South Africa could be any color under the rainbow. That wouldn’t change their absolute incapability of administrating a donut shop, let alone a complex, formerly Western country.

            As for my comments, I guess they can be construed as racist against Zulus. Sorry about that. I have nothing against Zulus. It’s a very vibrant and exciting culture. Just don’t think that the Zulu people can run a country successfully. CAn they rob it blind and suck all the resources out of it? Sure! Successfully run the country? no.

          • JSal

            It was a sarcastic remark. People that think like you keep saying how they cannot be responsible for the sins of their fathers & then turn around & blame everything that happens in a country on one man. Even though he only ran the country for five years, was imprisoned for thirty of those years & is responsible for the actions of other people. You consistently talk out of both sides of your ass. Revolution is messy. Democracy is messy. Anything run by people is messy & imperfect. I wonder how the perfectly run white power structure would have faired if all the (black) people actually doing the work necessary to keep a country going would have just stopped doing their jobs.

          • Zoeker2012

            This isn’t democracy. It’s kleptocracy. Country is doomed, as it is led by two competing groups of kleptocratic racist fascists.

        • AAA

          So in your mind a 18 year old white male should not be allowed a fair chance, because of what occurred before he was born?

        • Charlie

          Go home Daniel, you’re drunk.

        • Ed

          I am white, Slovakian and American. When you say “We” are you implying that you and your family were part of the people that mistreated the black South Africans? If so or you need to feel guilty for some other reason, then I hope someday you will wash away YOUR guilt.

        • Chuck

          Hey Daniel, you low-life turd, Why don’;t you pay attention to something aside from your blood lust and desire to be a government-supported slug. I bet you hate yourself even more than you hate everybody else.

        • M_Young

          The difference, of course, is that white males .. the fathers and grandfathers and great-grandfathers of the white men fleeing South Africa, are the ones who created the industry and even the government bureaucracy that their descendants are now shut out from.

          I encourage all South African whites to leave…whites in the West, particularly the Anglosphere and the Netherlands, should demand our governments accept them as refugees.

        • Peter

          You are trash, and I wonder how your mother sleeps at night knowing what she raised.

          • DanielHilliard

            your post made me smile. thanks.

          • Peter

            I was serious. What kind of a sick person CONDONES the MURDER of innocent people by racial association??

            Daniel Hilliard now that I know your name and have your picture I will be finding your employer and contacting them, and I will also inform your neighbourhood, family, and associates of your employer.

            You are a disgusting evil little man.

        • rotten rollin

          Oh, do I hear the sounds of liberal civil discourse?

          You guys think they invented the First to protect your right to F everything.

        • BadIdeas

          Your an idiot Daniel

          • DanielHilliard

            hahahaaaa. Did you mean “You’re”? Ahhhh. coming out of the depths of idiocy was a bad idea BadIdeas.

        • Truelitistnot

          All the more reason to go back to the old systems then Daniel. If the blacks are going to turn out just as racist as the ancient whites (and ancient blacks, because the ancient blacks really hated blacks for some idiotic tribal reasons), then race wars are unavoidable and we should simply get on with it. Either both sides gives up on racism or no one does… get it? You can’t judge the grand children based on the grandfathers actions. If you do then expect a war with the grand kids.

        • Steve

          You know that phrase “two wrongs don’t make a right”?

        • Vote_them_all_out

          you are ignorant first off daniel, second, slaves were sold by our own people into slavery and made big money doing it….yes looking back we have 20-20 vision, but it is only fair to look at where black people are at now as opposed to where most would be if left in Africa. We would in large part still be throwing spheres at wild animals sadly and starving because the govt takes all the assistance given and uses it on themselves…as a black man I am thankful for the sacrifices my ancestors made for me back then…i was not around then so i cannot hold it against those participating in the slave trade

          • Danielzinho

            you’re clearly not black and that was an embarrassing attempt at trying to pretend that you were. the levels that racists will stoop to in order to try and gain credibility. lol. what an embarrassment you are to humanity. idiots like you think that the fact that a black person may have sold slaves to white people justifies the fact that white people treated black people as sub-human for generations… you’re a moron. this conversation isn’t even about slavery. It’s about apartheid. you’re an idiot for even trying to pretend to be black. lol. laughable.

        • Cyclops

          Other than savages running around in grass skirts was civilisation was in South Africa until the Europeans arrived to ‘abuse’ them?

          • Danielzinho

            you’ve got no idea what you’re talking about.

          • Henri le Riche

            lol. And you do?

            I can just laugh at some people trying to sound intelligent, with very limited information on subjects they only have “couch” expert opinion on that is limited by what they hear in the media. Sheep. We’re surrounded by sheep.

            Africa is not the US. African-Americans are more westernised than their African counterparts in general. They won’t last in Africa thats for sure. Skin colour don’t give you special priviledged. Just ask what what happens when your ass gets “xenophobe’d…. How do i know. I’m 15 generation African. People look at us, and they our skin colour first. Talk about hypocrisy of the so called “anti-racists fad movement”. I’m More African than most “African-Americans” as I was actually born in Africa.

            So how did this cumbaya-continent (if you listen to naive liberals) greeted, naive liberals….? Well, history tend to give an answer to those who actually do know history….

            Here’s one of many such stories.

            http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F10E10FE3C5E10738DDDAE0A94DD405B8185F0D3

          • Danielzinho

            I think you may have been confused somewhere. I don’t use the term African-Americans. If I’m referring to someone based on the color of their skin, I say black (American black, South African black). and you’re right, you are African, more than an American black person with no African identity. What’s your point? Also, I don’t have to try to sound intelligent. I’ve only been speaking about common sense topics on this thread. The fact that the majority of people posting on this article are delusional idiots and/or racists and bigots is the reason that I have been mocking people. Those people are obviously idiots. But watch out, you sound like you’re on the border of becoming a “sheep.” Anyone who throws around the word “sheep” too often …more often than not is the “sheep.”

        • Froddoislost

          Want a race war idiot? Know this; it will be short and your side will lose.

          Too stupid to understand that, aren’t you.

          • Danielzinho

            and what race am I again? Right in your wheelhouse… making stupid comments about things that you’re completely ignorant of.

        • African-Reputation

          And African neggers can move to africa any time but refuse why? Why after the ending of slavery didnt they flock to the mother land?

          They hate whites but hate africans even more!!! No African country left to its own ever made it!!

          What being/or god makes a human race that cannot feed itself and relies on every other nation for handouts? There is only one that comes to mind

          put 50 million Afro Americans in Africa and nothing will happen on this continent in another 50000000000 years

        • JoeD

          So that makes it right? You’re a serious idiot. It may come as a shock to you, moron, that, just like in the US, this mistreatment came at the hands of government, not at the hands of the people. And don’t give us this BS that it’s a gov’t “of the people”, that’s just crap and you know it is.

        • Pat

          You thick as pigs hit tosser. Why can’t blacks create anything for themselves. We creating South Africa, the blacks advanced nothing more than would expect from sewer rats. Now the blacks want what the white man created.

          Until we turned up, blacks raped and stole. Sadly they do the same today……..

          • Danielzinho

            They created a respectable and democratic South Africa. A country that can be respected. Which is more than can be said for South African whites…. who created a racist state of embarrassment and shame which the entire world looked down upon as a disgraceful government. So I guess they created something.

        • allessior

          What an F’in idiot (meaning “Freakin idiot” or anything else you might imagine). So “my people”, very dark, olive-skinned, poor “slaves” in Calabria, Italia, were treated worse than the horse shisst (meaning horse “feces” or anything else you might imagine) under your lips. You think that WE and any of the other of millions of people alive today don’t have stories of of some kind of persecution, where “their people” were beaten, shot, starved, killed, and outright treated like the cockroach that YOU ARE? Six million or more Jews starved, tortured, and killed by the Nazi, many Pols included. In the US, Japanese, German, and Italian Americans interned just because of their ethnicities, losing their homes and businesses. You are a CREEP of the highest order because you do NOTHING but sit there and judge, using cockamamy, childish vindictive to make a non-point. How’s that South African economy workin out for ya, huh? Look, blacks have what they want now in tne entire world. The world is their oyster just like it is mine. I can assure you 1000% that if the so-called poor in this country had to live the way I did, no toilets, no cell phones, no big-screen TV rentals, no stoves to heat a non-existent apartment, no drug deals to provide an income, no $300/week food stamps, no NOTHIN, NOTHIN. Can you imagine having to find the nearest bush or hill to have to take a crap? What about finding a well for water so you could wash your filthy butt? The REAL cry babies are people like you who dare throw your childishness around as though you are defending a cause, but in fact, you are the biggest ignoramus on earth who knows NOTHING ABOUT NOTHING.Go back under your rock, you IGNORAMUS!

        • Mandela and all men = evil

          Are you kidding me? Their own fucking black kind sold them into slavery. Blacks like to look at whites as we are the enemy that did all harm to them, but the fact remains that slavery happened all over the world and wasn’t caused by only white men. And if that’s all you have to say, then you are a scum bag that isn’t looking for a fair future for all.

        • Malcolm Brady

          So you want to become what you hate? You call that justice? Two wrongs don’t make a right!

        • bobfairlane

          Nah, you kikes and your pet negros are the crybabies. You can take cars, you can take cattle, you can take buildings….but you can’t take civilization.

      • Pepesh

        “Whites cannot get a job in their native land of South Africa”…think about it.

        • DrPhuckyPhd

          The fact that the black ANC government imposed laws that do not allow businesses to hire white males accounts for the fact there are so many Afrikaan mercenaries working in Central Asia and sub-Saharan African nations.

          • Nienie

            Whaa?

      • Sarah

        Very good…reverse? This is what happens when a group of people take another’s Country and enjoy the benefits.

      • AAA

        This happen in the United States whith Federal Government jobs

      • Paula DeAngelis, PhD

        So typical of the “Progressive” Socialist-Marxist-Leninist-Celebritard Left that they would honor this miserable, child-killing terrorist. In the United States, you would think Mandella was Ghandi and Christ himself, given the way the idiots in the American media play the story.

        He was a murderer, a terrorist, and a crook. He deserved every day of his life sentence and its criminal that he did not die in prison.

      • John Smith

        Hey whites have been at the bottom of the list here in the US for years! Research Affirmative Action. While attending a University I did a very thorough study of the “Unconstitutional law” that discriminates against mainly white men in hiring, contract awards, and of course you don’t have to have a high GPA to get into State Universities if you are…. wait for it……….Black! I really wish Obama would release his education records so we can all see what effect affirmative action had on him going to an ivy league school. That will never happen

      • Colonized Taino

        South Africa has never been and never will be the native land of any white man. They came across the ocean and they enslaved the natives. They colonized those lands. If the argument is that it is unfair these days that natives are treated better than colonizers, then we have a very serious problem.

        • DrPhuckyPhd

          Well, Colonized Taino, to use YOUR logic, the black man should be made to leave North America and most of Europe.
          In South Africa, the “natives”, as you call blacks, are cutting their own throats when they run off managerial and professional whites. If it had not been for the Anglos and Afrikaans, South Africa would be rotting today like Congo and Zimbabwe. Most blacks are unable to govern themselves in a civilized manner.

    • whoohaa123

      Unfortunately for the U.S., there has been a mass influx of racist SA assholes since the end of apartheid. Hopefully they will die off will all the American racist assholes or maybe they can be deported back to SA with all their racist BS. And personally for you, when de Klerk dies, get the hell out of my country.

    • Palesa Khambi

      we are so glad you are gone! we don’t need the likes of you in this country, who want to destroy and not build.

      • J Simson

        Build by all means. Who is there to stop you?

        Take a look at most of the infrastructure in SA. Built by whites. What exactly has the ANC added?

    • Faisal

      what about calling yourself dutch/british as that is what you really are. It isn’t your country and it never was, Africa is the black mans land and belongs to the black man. You b*****ds deserve to be murdered for what you did, it’s payback time. If your fellow Europeans who haven’t left don’t like it I suggest they f**k off back to where they came from. Its funny, whites get all prickly when people immigrate to their countries, but think it is acceptable when they do the same thing and actually take over, killing and oppressing the natives. This is what whites have done in Zimbabwe, South Africa, Australia, America, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Angola, Cuba and many other countries besides.

      • ttyler5

        This comment is sick. I’ve flagged it. I think you should be barred from posting for placing it.

      • Dun Caring

        Yes thats right the whites came to those countries, educated you all and built an infastructure that is falling apart now we are leaving, Mate it does not matter the colour of the skin its the pillock inside and trust me having lived in Africa for some time there are some very very intelligent and great people, but the majority are pig thick, arsesholes bit like you Faisal

        • HonkyHater

          By educate do you mean rape and kill women and children and send the survivors of to live as slaves for the rest of their lives? The white man is the devils minions

          • Ali

            HonkyHater, you are a prime example of the double standards mentioned in previous posts. If a white person were to create a pseudonym that stated they hated all black people they would be, quite rightly, removed from the post and banned from posting under that name again. However, your pseudonym clearly states that you hate all whites and nothing is done about it. It’s ironic, isn’t it? By creating that name and coming here to stick up for a worthy cause you have actually done nothing but prove you are as evil and ignorant as the people that caused these issues all those years ago.

          • J Simson

            So when black do it to whites it becomes OK?

          • Nienie

            You do not know what you are speaking of. No raping occurred and there was never slavery during the Apartheid era.

        • nych

          Most humans of ANY race or creed are ignorant xenophobic asshats. It’s just that the PC police say you can only call out white males for assholishness so you dont hurt anyone’s widdle feewings. I feel racism is perfectly justified against one particular race…the HUMAN race.

      • J Simson

        So all whites must be sent back to Europe?

        Suddenly the color of ones skin is relevant. Who is the racist here?

        • glebealyth

          And all blacks return to Africa.

          • J Simson

            How racist! Only whites must be expelled and driven out

          • glebealyth

            I think we should both take our tongues out from our cheeks, before the Thought Police arrive at our doors.

            ;o))

      • Murtud Lubadus

        Wrong, the blacks stole the land from the Koisan.

        • Nienie

          You are right Murtud. The indigenous people of South Africa are the Koisan or Koi or Koi-Koi, also known as Bushmen. No one else has a native claim to South Africa. The Bantu (many of the black South Africans) settled there from neighboring African countries later. Faisal, check out the movie called “The God’s Must be Crazy”. The main character in the movie is an original South African. It is a myth that the Bantu or Blacks are the original South Africans.

    • polk14

      The only great thing the SOB ever done is die!

    • lsksmash

      I only hate that Mandela didn’t act like Mugabe any soon if this are the kinds of articles reconciliation generates…. Obviously the whites leaders and their police for are innocent… Even that one that kicked my three year old sister in the street because she was calling to a friend to throw her a ball, My sisters name is Phetheni, by the way and she remembers her trauma and pain very deeply. I wish I could kick the idiot back myself, kicking a three year old baby… ought to be ashamed of yourself.

    • toffendask

      You were OK with this shit happening to others but not yourself?

    • Peter

      And we’re glad you’re an ex South African also.

    • African-Reputation

      SA is a Zimbabwe waiting to happen ?? Really ??? It is one already!!

    • Ubwart

      You know, SA is going to collapse under the weight of blacks. The blacks can not even keep a civilization running. All the whites should just leave the country and move to Canada or Alaska or maybe WY or the Dakota’s, very few blacks there.

  • Lee Jenkins

    Thanks for your comments guys!

  • piper

    so what you saying millions of black south african were being treated as slaves in their own country. the anc stood up to the aparthied which was supported by the west especially Britain. lets count how many native south africans britain and the aparthied kill, how many beaten how many rapes these people went through.

    • Lee Jenkins

      Was that directed at me or Craig?

    • Sorensen

      Since the end of apartheid, there have been almost 70,000 white farmers killed, that’s just farmers. Plus the ANC have killed blacks during their terrorist efforts in ending apartheid. South African whites have it FAR WORSE under the ANC than blacks had it under the apartheid state. So bad that an outside, unbiased organization named “genocide watch” has taken notice to the situation there. Every policy is anti-white in South Africa, from jobs to education, all racially biased in favor of blacks. The current government ignores the overwhelming amount of hate crimes, rapes and murders where whites are victims. They sing songs about killing the whites, Zuma included. The scene in South Africa is worse than it was under apartheid, the west doesn’t know because the west only empathizes with the victimization of blacks and other non-whites.

      I understand blacks faced almost the same type of biased government, but blacks didn’t have to deal with home invasions where the parents are butchered with machetes in front of their children. where children are drowned in boiling water, where women are gang raped in front of their husbands before they are bother murdered. These aren’t just robberies, sometimes the attackers leave with nothing but blood on their hands. Vicious acts of hate and revenge are what these attacks are. The cycle must be stopped, ignoring it only exacerbates these atrocities. Ending apartheid to instate a vengeful government was not the goal, wasn’t it something called “equality”? Well now that the reverse is happening, where are the civil and human rights activists? Are we whites not human?

      • welshandproud

        just swapped one form of racism 4 another but the blacks are in control so thats ok if you are white your a terrorist black a freedom fighter give it 10 years and will be like rhodesia morally and financially bankrupt a shame for a great country

        • Biko’s Ghost

          Zimbabwe is doing great actually, they didn’t get rid of all white people, they got rid of the useless ones who were exploiting blacks for cheap labour, the main supplier to the Bulawayo fruit market is white, and so are most of the tobacco farm owners, who, along with new black farm owners are thriving. Companies and investors are dying to get into the zimbabwe market, their stock market is improving, and their education system is superior to south africa. Other than baised white media reports demonising him, his country is doing actually quite good. Aluta!

      • PFunk

        “Since the end of apartheid, there have been almost 70,000 white farmers killed” source please

      • Biko’s Ghost

        Whites have been butchering blacks since settler clashes, cannons to spears is how you managed to even establish your colonies. In individual massacres you killed thousands of each tribe at a time. And then you formed governments that relegated the NATIVES of this continent to sub human beings, a feat you wouldn’t have achieved without artillery and murder, oppressed them for centuries milking them for CHEAP LABOUR to build your empires, what did you think they would do when they eventually got the chance for revenge? Turn the other cheek? You REAP what you SOW

        • Pac

          The first slave owners were black for your information.

          • JSal

            So, I guess it’s okay now?

      • Omar

        And so the pendulum swings. Hopefully the next swing will stay much closer to the apex.

    • lysosome

      but but but – hey – the other guy did it too. That’s an argument that I’ve never understood as if somehow because the other guy did it too, Mandela is an angel? Mandela was a murderer. Nobody else matters in that statement because lots of people are murderers and none of them have anything to do with Mandela.

    • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

      Did the ANC, or is the ANC standing up for all the slaves their own people sold in to slavery in Africa; currently selling in to slavery in Africa?

    • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

      For Piper – interesting FACTS ==> “The source is none other than the Human Right Commission submitted as evidence to the TRC in 1997.

      The statistics they proffered relate to the number of blacks killed between
      the years 1948 up to the election in 1994. The total number of blacks
      killed were 21 000. That falls quite a bit short of 30 000 but wait, it
      gets more interesting. It’s not the full story.

      The HRC report also makes a distinction between two periods. One from 1948 till 1989 and the next from 1990 to the election in 1994. The number killed for the period from 1948 until 1989 is 7 000. A helluva lot less than 30 000 wouldn’t you think?

      That means the number killed from 1990 to 1994 which is AFTER the unbanning of the ANC and for all intents and purposes apartheid had ended is a whopping 14 000, involving mostly black on black violence between the ANC and the IFP and various other factions! Not whitey’s fault.

      Of the 14 000 killed during those 4 years, 92% of deaths were caused by
      blacks killing blacks. Only 5.6% were attributed to the Security Forces
      at the time and usually in retaliation to attacks initiated by the
      ANC/UDF that had been unbanned. Remember Ciskei? The difference in % is due to unknown causes.

      What this means is that during the apartheid reign of 41 years, 7 000 blacks died compared to double the amount of dead in just 4 years! Let me break it down yet further, 170 blacks were killed as a result of
      apartheid ANNUALLY. That’s 170 people per year! That’s the HRC figures
      people! Sounds like an insignificant number now doesn’t it? Contrast
      that with over 200 white farmers dying annually since 1994.

      More blacks then were killed under De Klerk’s ‘new’ anti-apartheid
      government of 4 years than in 41 years of government under full blown
      apartheid! How good was the propaganda of the anti-apartheid movement
      eh?!”….. and NO, this is not to make light of deaths of any persons,
      ever…. just pointing out the FACTS, something one does not get to
      erase or ignore because it is not politically correct.

      • Biko’s Ghost

        Start counting from 1652

  • therealguyfaux

    None of any of this matters to those who simply wish to deify Mandela as some sort of modern-day Mohandas Gandhi. It is the Liberty Valance Syndrome– “Print the legend.” The Narrative says that Nelson Mandela bravely fought a repressive regime and paid for it with 27 years of his life, during which he learned not to hate but to forgive his oppressors for they knew not what they did. Father, into your hands we commend his spirit…

    As Lyndon Johnson is reputed to have said upon the death of Charles deGaulle, “Somebody’s gonna be real disappointed three days from now.” It probably won’t be Mandela himself this time, but rather his apologists, if they ever really believed any of the poppycock (which I tend to doubt– all of that was for us bozos out here).

    • doubleA

      Mohandas Gandhi ain’t no saint either. He supported the caste system and was unwilling to allow the Dalits(untouchables) to form their own political organization.

  • Bunty Hogan

    Mandela dealt with tyrants like Gaddafi to help his cause. Churchill dealt with Stalin to help our cause. Mandela didn’t renounce violence and fought back against oppression. So did Churchill. The article highlights a series of bombings attributed to him, despite the fact that the ones quoted happened during his time in prison. Let’s just say he was responsible for civilian deaths. So was Churchill, hell, he even gassed more Kurds than Saddam. Churchill isn’t described as flawed for dealing with Stalin, using violence and killing civilians. Yet, in Mandela’s case, they are flaws and “things you didn’t want to know”. If an African leader fights back, it’s a flaw in their character. If a European leader fights back, it shows their strength of character. It’s a subtle form of racism. It’s not surprising coming from people who, in the 80′s, wanted to prolong Apartheid. I’m glad Churchill led us to victory in WW2. I’m also glad Mandela led the anti-apartheid struggle to victory. That said, I do agree with that David fellow below that it’s a crying shame that the people who followed him turned out to be such weak leaders and have resorted to the same type of racism they fought to replace.

    • Alex Wright

      It’s more anyone of “our” side typically gets a free pass in carpet-bombing civilians or using nuclear weapons (as being either regrettably necessary or just going under “war is hell”), rather than necessarily a European-African thing. And the whole freedom fighters/terrorist debate (compare and contrast US position on anti-Israel & anti-Assad fighters – or for that matter Iran & Hezbollah’s diametrically opposite position on them).

      Though increasingly Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki do get condemned these days now they’re safely several decades ago (unlike less comfortable present-day civilian casualties by Western forces from aerial bombardment and drones, and whether or not they are “proportionate” and legal).

      After all we still condemn the Blitz by German Europeans despite our retaliatory aerial bombardment killing far more civilians. And once we were no longer allies with Stalin we condemned his mass murders once again.

      • Omar

        As Bob Dylan would say, it’s okay because we have god on our side.

    • Alex.H.

      Interesting counter points from Hogan there, and I confess I don’t know enough DETAIL about the amount of actual oppression of the black majority during the white only government etc etc to say, “A rubababahhahahawubaba nuthing more thin a terririst!” as hogan is quite right, we certainly found / thought it necessary to pound areas filled with german civilians in an attempt to halt the german war machine

      However, I would like to drop in a little correction here for people who have been hoodwinked by the “CHURUCHILL GASSSED POOR IN FOREIGN CUNTRIES PPL!” bit of left wing misunderstanding:

      He DID advocate the use of gas on “uncivilized” tribes. He advocated it as opposed to using full scale and deadly rifle fire on them and if you go and actually LOOK UP the gas he was talking about you will note that the gas is what we would today call “Tear gas”. He was, in effect, saying “Don’t shoot rebellious colonials if you can scare them away with tear gas”.
      Given that he’d just finnished with a war in which whitey was gassing whitey with very specifically deadly gasses his advocacy for the use of gas is actually a demand for moderation, from the usual “I say, shoot that darkey” point of view of the English when dealing with rebellious colonials at that time period.

    • Scum Finder

      What the fuck has Churchill got to do with anything

      • Oh ARRR!

        alot because churchill was not much better they all did bad things including dealing with terrorists!

        • Evil Llama

          Scum finder, he was correlating you moron. That’s what people with brains do. You on the other hand do not, so stay out of the converasation.

    • Jerry Harness

      I think it is more related to time frame than race. In Churchill’s time, the actions of any government were rarely questioned by the public, especially in a time of war. For a far comparison, would you as readily forgive Mandela if he had used an atom bomb, since the world forgave the US once? Would you use this same silly argument to justify it?

      The world is a different place and the mistakes of the past are just that, regardless of who makes them, or what color their skin was. If you want to make a fair comparison, please show examples of excused white atrocities during Mandela’s time; otherwise next you’ll be justifying blacks having white slaves because whites once owning black ones. As a society, we should learn from our mistakes: not repeat them. I find your argument racist and unsound.

    • Saemundr

      Churchhill didn’t lead you to victory, the Americans did.

      • jovan66102

        If Churchill had not kept Britain and the Empire fighting, there would have been no victory for the johnny-come-lately Yanks to lead anyone to. The US likes to brag about how they won both WW I and WW II. In both cases, they had to be literally dragged into the war by their presidents. BTW, I’m a ‘natural born’ American citizen. I just know a bit of history.

        • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

          While your statement may be true, you do not invalidate his statement. If it were not for the Americans, that war would not have been won.

          • Chuckyred

            If it werent for the British-the war wouldnt have been won.

          • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

            Possibly, but if the British could have won the war, why drag the US in to it?

        • scholar

          Actually you’re wrong. We only entered ww1 because the Germans kept using uboats and killing American citizens. Ww2 we told both sides we wanted no part of the war and ended up fighting a two front war. Both wars were majorly popular with the people. And yes, we caused a stalemate in ww1 which resulted in a treaty, and blew the hell out of Japan and took normandy resulting in a victory in 2. We were late to the wars because they had nothing to do us.(currently enrolled in American history 2 which covers both wars)

      • vi

        russians won it, man

    • http://blog.lotusopening.com/ Madison Reed

      A “subtle” form of racism? You’re too nice Bunty! It seems to me to be a persistent manifestation – perhaps an epigenetically rooted racism and cold-hearted selfishness – inherent in a segment of the white population morbidly obsessed with religion, skin color and sex organs.

    • markkrite

      Enough w/your constant cry and smear of “racism” whenever anyone tells a little truth about “saint” Nelson; how about this truth; Winnie Mandela, a vicious brute of a woman, used NECKLACING in her constant and bitter fight against her and St. Nelson’s many enemies, or opponents, an ugly practice of the South African tribal scene whereby a tire doused w/gasoline is either lit and put around their opponent’s neck, or doused, put around their neck and lit; and the effect’s the same, i.e., BURN THE OPPONENT TO DEATH WHILE THEY’RE ALIVE! This is barbarism of the highest order, and Nelson and Winnie Mandela countenanced it! They were also members of the South African Communist Party, and countenanced their tactics as well. Lefty Western news sources were constantly trying to suppress this news re NECKLACING, as well as their subversive activities, but they got out anyway. .

    • Artfuldodger

      I sure as hell don’t revere Churchill. He was an SOB. There aren’t really any good guys in history except for Jesus, and some others in Asia.

  • Alex Wright

    I knew he co-founded the MK guerrillas (with the help of white Communists – he said he liked white Communists cos they actually treated him as a person) – it’s hardly a secret, he states it in his autobiography. as well as his reasons for starting an armed wing after the Sharpeville massacre, his touring Africa for guerrilla training and arms (with Communist and African nationalist authoritarian regimes being the main states willing to help). He argues that at first MK mainly concentrated on symbolic sabotage aimed to be non-lethal, though not sure how true that is.

    I struggle to understand how all this seems to have personally disappeared down the memory hole, to the extent that few know what Mandela served his life sentence for (ie sabotage and terrorist offences). I once got a letter on this published in the New Statesman when they repeated the lie of a Gandhi-like non-violent Mandela.

    Personally, I was persuaded there was some justification for armed rebellion (or at least self-defence) against the South African security forces at the time (similar to the French Resistance – who also committed war crimes), as they crushed all non-violent protest brutally, banning all anti-apartheid parties as Communist etc. – but will admit as the 80s when the anti-apartheid guerrillas committed plenty of atrocities against civilians with broadly defined “economic targets” (ie shops) a bit like the IRA, brutal punishments of alleged informers, and general chaos involved in the campaign to make the townships ungovernable, and there was the 1990s infighting between the ANC and pro-Bantustan blacks.

    Technically the 80s attacks targeting civilians happened whilst Mandela was in prison and whilst the ANC/MK was led from exile, and some attacks – but yes it’s theoretically possible the imprisoned ANC leadership may have had some input on targeting still.

    The MK weren’t really any worse than the Western-backed KLA, the Syrian anti-Assad and Libyan anti-Gaddafi rebels, or the anti-Soviet mujahadeen though really.

  • John

    You might like to have a peep at this:
    http://www.john-c-barry.de/pb1_e.htm

  • Boombada

    Thanks… Is this true? Im doing a debate about him and my team is Martin Luther King. I can beat him up now… Not literally the person who is playing him is a 7 year old and im 13 lol xD

    • Wes

      No its not. Most of this a cursory google search will debunk immediately.

  • Ubwart

    Too bad the world doesn’t know the truth about St. Mandella.

    • buffalocharlie

      Oh….so you know something the rest of us don’t?

      • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

        Ozzie Saffa – I am a 40-something ex-South African and now Australian citizen:

        Today I don’t mourn his passing. Instead, today I think of the people he murdered. I think of them lying in their graves while for years he drank champagne and was fettered on the international stage as some kind of living god. I think of all the people who have died since he became president of South Africa. All the farmers, all the elderly, all the men, women and especially all the children, who died as a result of him being unleashed onto South Africa.

        Nelson Mandela is now in a nice hot place together with all the other murderers, dictators and terrorists who have gone before him.

        And while the brainwashed world celebrates his life and his so-called achievements, I remember that he pleaded guilty to 156 counts of public violence, including mobilising terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places. Many innocent people including women and children died because of Mandela and his MK terrorists.

        For that he wasn’t hung by the neck until dead – instead he was given a life sentence in jail, the biggest mistake ever made by the South African judiciary. For it gave the ANC time to white-wash his history and remake Mandela into a freedom fighter. And with the help of Communists around the Western world, the reincarnation of Mandela the freedom fighter and Black activist was achieved.

        I’ll remember too that he released thousands of criminals, murderers and rapists from jail every year to celebrate his birthday while president, unleashing even more violence, chaos and death on the people of South Africa.

        I’ll remember Mandela supporting some of the worst dictatorships and human rights abusers in the world: Fidel Castro, Ghaddafi in Libya, China, Suddam Hussein in Iraq, Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe….the list goes on. No one too evil to visit or welcome in South Africa by Mandela, yet he was celebrated as a human rights champion by the world.

        I’ll remember that over 100 000 people were murdered under Mandela’s presidency – an average of 25 000 people each year. Up from 170 a year under Apartheid (1948-1989).

        I’ll remember that in the first four years of his presidency, the South African currency lost 80% of its value and 2.8 million working days were lost due to strikes. I’ll remember that the national debt doubled under Mandela.

        Yes, I will remember the failure that the man Nelson Mandela was. Not the magical myth we’re supposed to believe in. The world may have repackaged and re-branded him, but underneath he’s still the same murdering terrorist and Communist he always was.

        He never once apologised for what he’d done and for those he murdered.

        And not that I’m celebrating his death, but all of a sudden I have a hankering for some nice chilled champagne.

        Cheers!

        http://ozziesaffa.blogspot.com/2013/12/mandela-dead.html

        • ulrich osterloh

          Brilliant…. And: South Africa will never find peace until, next to the shrine they built there for Mandela, they will build a shrine dedicated to his many nameless victims.

        • AmazingHowTheWorldDoesntWork

          Listing off the terrible things Mandela has done and then celebrating his death right afterwards. Not to say that it’s as bad as slaughtering innocent people but… seriously? Lowering your own standards right after talking about how he sat and relaxed as people were killed?

          • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

            For his death to matter to me, for me to respect his death would mean I respected his living self, and I do not. I have no sympathy for a man who did what he did only to become President of that same country and look the other way why innocent people were being murdered, people that had nothing to do with Apartheid being perpetrated by people who were not victims of Apartheid.

            I dismiss none of the violence by any side, but to blindly sit back and worship a person who did what he did, to pay respect for his passing is disgusting at best.

          • WhiteinAfrica

            Hmmmmm how little some people know. For those who have never even been to Africa, put a sock in it. You can’t comment blind!

        • PFunk

          “I’ll remember that over 100 000 people were murdered under Mandela’s presidency”

          Source please.

          • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

            Let start here – Mandela became President of South Africa in 1994 and remained there through 1999:

            the source is none other than the Human Right Commission submitted as evidence to the TRC in 1997.

            The statistics they proffered relate to the number of blacks killed between the years 1948 up to the election in 1994.

            The total number of blacks killed were 21 000. That falls quite a bit short of 30 000 but wait, it gets more interesting. It’s not the full story.

            The HRC report also makes a distinction between two
            periods. One from 1948 till 1989 and the next from 1990 to the election in 1994. The number killed for the period from 1948 until 1989 is 7 000. A helluva lot less than 30 000 wouldn’t you think?

            That means the number killed from 1990 to 1994 which is AFTER the unbanning of the ANC and for all intents and purposes apartheid had ended is a whopping 14 000, involving mostly black on black violence between the ANC and the IFP and various other factions! Not whitey’s fault.

            Of the 14 000 killed during those 4 years, 92% of deaths were caused by blacks killing blacks.Only 5.6% were attributed to the Security Forces at the time and usually in retaliation to attacks initiated by the ANC/UDF that had been unbanned. Remember Ciskei? The difference in % is due to unknown causes.

            What this means is that during the apartheid reign of 41
            years, 7 000 blacks died compared to double the amount of dead in just 4 years! Let me break it down yet further, 170 blacks were killed as a result of apartheid ANNUALLY. That’s 170 people per year! That’s the HRC figures people! Sounds like an insignificant number now doesn’t it? dying annually since 1994.

            More blacks then were killed under De Klerk’s ‘new’ anti-apartheid government of 4 years than in 41 years of government under full blown apartheid! How good was the propaganda of the anti-apartheid movement
            eh?!

            Let me summarise, this needs to sink in:
            1948 – 1989: 7 000
            1990 – 1994: 14 000 (of which 92% as a result of ‘black-on-black’ violence)

            Really, is this the death toll of the “heinous” apartheid system the world grew to hate? Just 7000 deaths? And was it the worst thing to happen in the 20th century? Um, let’s look at the Left’s favourite socialist/ communist/ marxist/ dictators leaders to name but a few:

            Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39) : 23 million (the purges plus Ukraine’s famine)

            Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) : 78 million

            Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79): 1,7 million

            Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78): 1,5 million

            Apartheid: 7 000.

            ~_http://iluvsa.blogspot.com/2009/11/no-retribution-for-mbeki.html

          • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

            On 15 September 2011, Genocide
            Watch placed South Africa at level 6, Preparation, saying “we have evidence of organized incitement to violence against White people”.

            However, on 2 February 2012, Genocide Watch returned South Africa to level 5, Polarization.

            As of 14 August 2012, Genocide Watch was resetting South Africa to level 6.

            Genocide Watch stated that by 2001 “2.2 percent of ethno-European (White) farmers had already been murdered and more than… 12 percent of these farmers had been attacked on their farms”.

            As of December 2011, approximately 3,158 – 3,811 White farmers have been murdered in these attacks.

          • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

            A survey for the period 1998–2000 compiled by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime ranked South Africa second for assault and murder (by all means) per
            capita and first for rapes per capita in a data set of 60 countries.

            Total crime per capita was 10th out of the 60 countries in the dataset.

            The United Nations Interregional Crime and Justice Research Institute have also conducted research on the victims of crime which shows the picture of South African crime as more typical of a developing country.

          • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

            The country has one of the highest rates of rape in the world, with some 65,000 rapes and other sexual assaults reported for the year ending in March 2012, or 127.6 per 100,000 people in the country.

            The incidence of rape has led to the country being referred to as the “rape capital of the world”.

            One in three of the 4,000 women questioned by the Community of Information, Empowerment and Transparency said they had been raped in
            the past year.

            More than 25 per cent of South African men questioned in a survey published by the Medical Research Council (MRC) in June 2009 admitted to rape; of those, nearly half said they had raped more than one person.

            Three out of four of those who had admitted rape indicated that they had attacked for the first time during their teens.

            South Africa has amongst the highest incidences of child and baby rape in the world. If the rapist is convicted, his prison time would be around 2 years.

          • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

            The African National Congress (ANC) is the Republic of South Africa’s governing political party, supported by its Tripartite Alliance with the Congress of South African Trade Unions (COSATU) and the South African Communist Party (SACP), since April 1994.

            It defines itself as a “disciplined force of the left”.

            Members founded the organisation as the South African Native National Congress (SANNC) on 8 January 1912

            The organization became the ANC in 1923 and formed a military wing, the Umkhonto we Sizwe (Spear of the Nation) in 1961.

          • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

            Umkhonto we Sizwe (or MK), translated “Spear of the Nation”, was the military wing of the ANC – to which Mendala and his murderous wife belonged to and at some point LED.

            The MK committed terrorist acts to achieve their aims,
            and MK was responsible for the deaths of both civilians and members of
            the military.

            Acts of terrorism committed by the MK include the Church Street bombing and the Magoo’s Bar bombing. In co-operation with the South African Communist Party, MK was founded in 1961

          • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

            Address by ANC President, Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela, at the funeral of Martin Chris Hani” = which clearly states he was still aligned with the terrorist militant group that is responsible for THOUSANDS of murders, both blacks and whites

            http://www.anc.org.za/show.php?id=4083

        • doubleA

          oh fuck off u racist White South African cunt. Forgot what your forefathers did to the blacks before that?

          • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

            Ha ha ha – I love when LITTLE men have to invoke the word Cunt on women as though all of us are offended by a little name that men use to compensate for their little packages!

            Yo, rocket scientist:

            #1. You mean what the black ingenious people did to the whites when the whites did nothing to the blacks? If you have a minute amount of education, you need to go back to the 1800′s

            #2. Then you can explain who began the slaughter of not just white people, but babies and small children by bashing their heads in.

            #3. Human Rights Commission reported that more blacks were murdered by other blacks from 1948-1992 than were murdered by whites.

            Now pumpkin, don’t get mad at me because you are not educated. Try researching some time and save your hatred for the Nelson Mandela’s ANC-MK who murdered your people.

          • doubleA

            whatever man. All i read is a bunch of random facts taken out of context,trying to be passed off as actual research. Your white supremacist bias shows up very clearly though. I wont even bother countering them coz it doesnt fit a reply. You guys like to hide behind your facade of education and research but in reality you are white supremacists through and through. i apologise for calling you such names, it was rude of me to do so. Don’t get me wrong though, I still feel the same way about ppl like you. Get off your moral high horses and privileged backgrounds and look at the world around you that involve non-white ppl. The fact that you could migrate to Australia shows how lucky you are, make sure you don’t spread your racist ideology there. Mandela wasn’t perfect, but ppl like yourselves are not even fit to be the dust on the sole of his shoes.

      • Ubwart

        Yup, apparently, he was a terrorist.

  • Pingback: Nelson Mandela discharged from hospital - Turkish Living Forums

  • Mooly

    No, he is NOT flawed like the rest of us. We are not murderers like he is.

    • Potatoman93

      Every human being has the potential to be as loving as Jesus Christ or as genocidal as Adolf Hitler.
      Most of us prefer to stay in a selfish gray-zone though.

      • meatmyhomenowatthis .

        Okay I was following your point until you added Jesus along with Hitler – please choose your loving person to a real person – and for that matter Hitler may have been loving to his special ones

        • scholar

          Jesus is real idiot. Do some research. Yeshua of Nazareth is documented. That’s like saying Alexander the great wasn’t real.

          • Sam

            “Jesus is real idiot.” – no argument here.

        • http://MacroManJr.blogspot.com/ Brian Lockett

          Um, Jesus was a real person in history. Logically-speaking, it’s not necessary to believe he was the Messiah just to simply acknowledge the number of extrabiblical historical references verifying there was a man named Jesus who had followers. That’s like denying Buddha’s documented existence as a man just because you don’t believe in his teachings.

          • stig781

            Not quite, based on some real person perhaps, but not real.

          • Mark

            Any serious historian will tell you that the existence of the person known as “Jesus of Nazareth” is beyond doubt.
            What is debatable, is who that person was, and what He did.

      • Palesa Khambi

        That is why no one in this world will ever know your name or what you contributed to global society, your stupidity will become your downfall.

        • hnnn

          your ad hominems contribute nothing that’s for sure…

      • stig781

        The story book character of Jesus Christ was stupid and ignorant. He actually believed in demonic possession! What a chump.

  • Aldeba Ran

    Excellent piece of truth!

  • robbierocket

    This is so untrue. Those events he was apparently responsible for during the 80s took place whilst he was in prison. He was responsible for setting up MK, but whilst he was leader only acts of sabotage took place, where they deliberately avoided causing human harm, instead destroying property. What happened whilst he was in prison between 1963 and 1990 he can’t be held responsible for and it’s wrong to suggest otherwise.

    • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

      Right, and NO ONE has authority from behind prisons, right? NO ONE can demand a hit job, the killing of many whilst in prison, right?

      • jim

        When you’re allowed 1 letter every 6 months and its censored by the Prison Governor It’s probably not very easy to do any detailed planning…

        • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

          YIKES – not to be rude, but you a pretty naive if you truly believe that EVERY prisoner in EVERY prison in any country does not have a means to do things on the outside or have them done. I worry you believe this, that prisons are 100% secure and no one can or does go outside those rules.

          • Matey

            Why then didn’t he condemn the killings while he was in prison if he had nothing to do with them?
            Why not say “Not in my name” and say “These atrocities must stop”? His silence was guily enough.

          • megapode

            Well, Matey, Mandela was also banned in SA which meant, amongst other things, that it was illegal to quote him in the media. He could have said “I really fancy that Betsy Verwoerd” and nobody would have been able to repeat it.

          • JSal

            Unless you can back up what you just stated your argument is at best DOA.

  • Jimmy3442

    Every single case of terrorism in your first argument, occurred when Mandela was imprisoned, therefore how can he be responsible for them? It is true that Nelson Mandela helped to found the Umkhonto we Sizwe, which focused on strategic targets such as government communication lines, it is well known that the organisation did not show such brutality until after Mandela’s imprisonment and therefore a change in leadership.
    Secondly you list the purchases of military equipment as evidence that Mandela was some kind of bloodthirsty warmonger. No chemical or nuclear weapons. National security is a high priority for any statesman, and South Africa has as much as a right to protect themselves as any other country. We can’t all be switzerland! Buying weapons does not make you a warmonger, using them indiscriminately does.
    You mention that all of these dictators were significant contributors to the ANC. Now I ask you were the ANC under the yoke of the apartheid state, in any position to deny themselves of valuable resources they desperately needed? I think not. Therefore he can be forgiven for showing gratitude to those who helped his most virtuous cause.

    Nelson Mandela may not have been perfect, but he is far from the man you paint in this article.

    • Jerry Harness

      Personally, I found the article very fact based and an appropriate warning for the time in our history. While you might understand that Mandela was not perfect, the average person cannot comprehend the idea of a less-than-perfect hero. Heroes are idolized in everything, from the toothpaste they use to the color of their shoes; and too often, those wanting to be like them, will copy every detail in their quest.

      Concerning the 150+ terrorist acts, Mandela’s guilty plea meant what it implied. He was guilty, which he wanted everyone to know. We all understand that war is horrible and leaders are forced to make hard choices, Sometimes they make the wrong ones, regardless of how many they make right. I doubt your attempts at making him a saint without mistakes truly honor him. While it is important to honor his accomplishments, one should not honor his poorly chosen methods towards achieving them. The point is, there are many, more responsible choices other than terrorism and murder; and Mandela himself greatly feared if others began to see him as a saint, they would also view his methods saintly or worse, as the only way towards achieving political goals.

      Unfortunately, many have already followed in these same footsteps and are making the same wrong choices, all on the false hope that Mandela’s way was the right way, the only way; and this is what Mandela feared the most. If we truly want to honor his memory, we should honor his wishes and admit his crimes, just as he did.

      • martinwinlow

        Well put, Jerry.

    • JH du Toit

      Mandela approved these terrorist acts of the 1980′s from his prison cell. This is a well known fact.
      Furthermore, after his release he took part in signing “Shoot the Boer, kill the farmer”. On top of that he never voiced concern for the creeping genocide on white farmers. In fact he simply ignored is.
      His saintly statesmanlike image was crafted by western media and based on a popular fashion of the oppressed hero as a flawless godlike icon.

      • not an idiot

        how did he do it from jail…how is this a well known fact…what evidence is there … there are very few security agencies that were as effective as boss so don’t lie to yourself…. and as for the swart gevaar mentality…. your facts straight…. a higher percentage of black farm workers a killed each day, a higher percentage of black mine workers are killed each day, a higher percentage of black woman are murdered each day than white farmers you dim witted white supremest

        • not an idiot

          shoot the boer is a slogan and a song from the udf 1980′s make the townships ungovernable campaign… he didn’t sign anything…. after his release… he kissed the boers ass…. we should start killing boere so that they have a reason to cry… you lost the war but won the peace so be happy and thank mandela for selling out the rest of us

          • Rudi Van Wyk

            Contrary to your handle you are quite a fucking idiot.

          • Potatoman93

            Not an idiot, your name is misleading.
            You’re trying to argue your opinion against recorded facts. You really are just an idiot.

          • Piotr Andrzej Kolacinski

            u r idiot …shut up

          • J Simson

            He is not an idiot… Just a liberal progressive.

          • not an idiot

            what recorded facts are you talking about…please I’m interested and will detract my statement if such exists … stop pulling bullshit from your ass and check these so called facts… mandela could not communicate to the outside world from prison without boss( bureau of state security) finding out…from the 1980′s he primarily communicated with boss not anti-government organizations UDM and the UDF called for his release, used him as a face to stand behind but had no communications with him.he was long time ineffective and silenced in prison before any attacks on white civilians occurred…. you can record bullshit with any other name but its still bullshit

        • mike

          lol… what good does this ignorance do you? These are literally just facts and you denounce them because of racial bias, and assume that anyone who abides by literal fact is a racist? He’s known to have lead a bombing campaign (from jail) which killed many innocent people. The MK was responsible for countless deaths… if you weren’t aware, the MK was literally founded by Mandela, with most of their actions ordered by him. You’re so incredibly blinded by what the media wants you to think of Mandela it’s actually hilarious. He inspired good change (if one can even say that Africa is in a more positive place) but to ignore actual fact in favour of asinine bias is ignorant, fallacious and simply stupid.

          • not an idiot

            what proof is there that Mandela a high security risk, who was on a prison island under constant surveillance managed to organize and choose targets for the mk to attack… check your facts or show evidence… don’t just pull statements from you arse and call them facts… what proof is there, that from prison a man under content watch was able to co-ordinate sophisticated attacks against a very effective police state

          • not an idiot

            dude you don’t know what you talking about, mandela was a founding member not the founder. ANC was,is and will remain much bigger than 1 man… you have no proof what so ever to say that mandela from jail organized bombings in the 80′s- 20 years after he was sentenced to life imprisonment in the rivonia trial… he could not communicate with active members of the ANC yet alone solders in the MK…the man was a high security risk prisoner on an island in a police state…. they were checking the sound of his farts to make sure there were no secret messages getting out… by the time the attacks occurred that jenkins is talking about the country was 20 years different from what Mandela even knew…no one in the south african black population had really heard from him or other ANC members… check your so called facts… do you even know south african history… i take it you think you do… you have no evidence to support your facts, and if you do i invite you to present your ‘facts’ pshhhh

        • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

          Prove he didn’t do it from jail…..people order hits, sell drugs, engage in sex, etc all from jail. What, you can’t pay a jailer? You think they do not have paid people on the inside and out to get what they want or have what they want done taken care of?

          Please tell me you are not this naive – or ignorant?!

        • Gavin

          You are an idiot. Black farm worker are killed by their own people, not whites – Fact!. Black woman killed and raped are all by the hands of BLACK men. Now I suppose you will say that this is also the Whites fault. Everyone has the right to choose what they do for a living, the blacks in the mines made their choice and should you look at the actual nationality of them you will find that most are not even South African born, wake up. Get out of your safety zone….IDIOT!!!

          • Palesa Khambi

            Fuck off

          • J Simson

            Truth hurts?

          • not an idiot

            yes blacks kill blacks more than blacks kill whites but,how is that a fact…i can give much more examples of whites killing whites too or even whites killing blacks. members of the AWB have and continue to committed gross violations on human rights, yes everyone has the right to choose what they do for a living but does everyone have the means, without the apartheid government where would the inbred whites like yourself be… probably begging in the streets of europe somewhere I’m betting… if its so dangerous for whites go and be beggars in europe because everything you have was stolen (african were not prepared for european invasion so it was there fault but today whites are not prepared for an african onslaught so…)

    • Patrick Joseph Brennan

      Dam the truth hurts.

    • James

      Switzerland is neutral, not defenseless. It has one of the most well equipped Armies in Europe, and mandatory conscription.

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  • not an idiot

    all the bombings after 1980 have little to do with mandela _he was in jail on an island – and although its true the mk was set up under mandela its first program of action was bombing strategic structures without compromising human life, there is no evidence that he sanctioned any killings…also the mk were not terrorists but freedom fighters only succumbing to the use of civilian killing as a result of the brutality of the regime they were fighting…. the so called dictators are also african leaders who gave support during the struggle… what he did do was make a deal with white south africa that handed political control over the country to the and while retaining the economic control with the white community, effectively selling out the people he promised to free….

    • not an idiot

      political control of the country to ANC not and

    • nych

      “…freedom fighters only succumbing to the use of civilian killing as a result of the brutality of…”

      You are defending killing and torture of innocents because being an oppressed minority somehow absolves you of ALL TRACE of moral responsibility or basic humanity. Hmmm..I think I have heard this argument before…from every guilty white liberal in every place and time ever.

      • not an idiot

        but what proof is there that the mk under Mandela choose civilian targets… the original plans of attack from the MK were acts of sabotage without compromising on human life… after the rivonia trial after mandela was at the hands of the state did the MK eventually succumb( with most of their leadership in jail or exile) to civilian killings

      • not an idiot

        dude… this is africa not the USA (or wherever you from)… africans are the MAJORITY not whites… the MINORITY whites were the oppressors whilst the MAJORITY non whites were victims… you don’t know what I’m saying… but yes white south africans were not as innocent as you would like to think… they enjoyed the privileges that they were given by oppressing the MAJORITY of the country to the extend that the national government received their unyielding support… so they got what was coming to them… in my fucked up opinion anyway… also you fail to recognize my race but then again you could be from africa for all i know

  • not an idiot

    also with respect to gadaffi… eduction( up to tertiary level was free), health care was free, there were many social programs and the oil benefitted Libyans a lot more than it does today… dictator… maybe… lets look if the us or even the uk look after its people like that

    • geronl

      Healthcare was “free”. Not good healthcare and it wasn’t available to many people the government did not like. But socialists always bring up nonsense

      • not an idiot

        better than affordable (not even free) healthcare than what the usa provides

  • Ugandan

    He was as human as you and I so definitely not without a flaw but what he did in general to spread awareness of the discrimation and injustice in South Africa out ways his inperfections in my eyes… Believe me I know and am a child of war!,,

    • Nthis

      And what about the superior, voiceless people who worked against discrimination and injustice in South Africa without violence? Mandela did some good yes, but his resistance to South African (British) colonial rule was for selfish, monetary and leadership-seeking reasons and less about doing what’s right.

      • buffalocharlie

        OK, Nthis, so Mandela rotted away in jail all that time because he just KNEW he would one day be president an get all that money and power? Right! A man who gave his life to free his people, and you smear him as a selfish despot? Nice.

        • Joseph Miller

          He blew up civilians to “free his people”, the jail-time he didn’t have a choice about.

        • Nthis

          No, that’s what he became once he got into a place of power. Nothing is ever what it seems to be.

    • ShihonoRyo

      Yea we all make mistakes, but we still didn’t blow up shopping malls, churches, train stations killing innocent people, that is not a mistake, you can’t accidentally blow up and kill dozens of people in MULTIPLE terrorist attacks…
      Things like that you plan.
      This is like saying a peron who raped a woman, but later donated to charity should be forgiven.

  • Dr. Timothy J. Williams

    As president of South Africa, he promoted and signed the most liberal abortion law on the continent. The left always believes that killing is the answer to every social problem.

    • JSal

      Please tell us why God gives people free will? Do you think that you are allowed to pass judgement instead of God?

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  • Peace Love & Happiness

    Please forgive my nonchalant approach. But I think there are some things that we will just never know, and to speculate is sometimes worse. I will admit I have limited knowledge on the history of South Africa, however regardless of which race orchestrated killings on a different race or even the same race, it is still easy enough to distinguish that killing is wrong.
    Let the “world leaders” and those that feed us untruths deal with the tangled web of lies they weave. If painting a picture of Mandela as “godlike” was in fact a way to empower those that aspired to have a better life, then so be it. I don’t know the truth and I never will because that is the way the world works… Therefore I would much rather appreciate the picture that was painted of Mandela, rather than the much worse one being painted in this thread. One day our ego’s won’t control our actions and we might just all be able to get along. Hopefully that is what Mandela wanted :)

    • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

      Oh VOMIT – you rather remember Mandela for the LIES you are told versus the reality of what he did, he engaged in, what he was RESPONSIBLE for?

      Jesus CHRIST, how pathetic!!!

    • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

      Ozzie Saffa – I am a 40-something ex-South African and now Australian citizen:

      Today I don’t mourn his passing. Instead, today I think of the people he murdered. I think of them lying in their graves while for years he drank champagne and was fettered on the international stage as some kind of living god. I think of all the people who have died since he became president of South Africa. All the farmers, all the elderly, all the men, women and especially all the children, who died as a result of him being unleashed onto South Africa.

      Nelson Mandela is now in a nice hot place together with all the other murderers, dictators and terrorists who have gone before him.

      And while the brainwashed world celebrates his life and his so-called achievements, I remember that he pleaded guilty to 156 counts of public violence, including mobilising terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places. Many innocent people including women and children died because of Mandela and his MK terrorists.

      For that he wasn’t hung by the neck until dead – instead he was given a life
      sentence in jail, the biggest mistake ever made by the South African judiciary. For it gave the ANC time to white-wash his history and remake Mandela into a freedom fighter. And with the help of Communists around the Western world, the reincarnation of Mandela the freedom fighter and Black activist was achieved.

      I’ll remember too that he released thousands of criminals, murderers and rapists from jail every year to celebrate his birthday while president, unleashing even more violence, chaos and death on the people of South Africa.

      I’ll remember Mandela supporting some of the worst dictatorships and human rights abusers in the world: Fidel Castro, Ghaddafi in Libya, China, Suddam Hussein in Iraq, Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe….the list goes on. No one too evil to visit
      or welcome in South Africa by Mandela, yet he was celebrated as a human rights champion by the world.

      I’ll remember that over 100 000 people were murdered under Mandela’s presidency – an average of 25 000 people each year. Up from 170 a year under Apartheid (1948-1989).

      I’ll remember that in the first four years of his presidency, the South African
      currency lost 80% of its value and 2.8 million working days were lost due to
      strikes. I’ll remember that the national debt doubled under Mandela.

      Yes, I will remember the failure that the man Nelson Mandela was. Not the magical myth we’re supposed to believe in. The world may have repackaged and re-branded him, but underneath he’s still the same murdering terrorist and Communist he always was.

      He never once apologised for what he’d done and for those he murdered.

      And not that I’m celebrating his death, but all of a sudden I have a hankering for some nice chilled champagne.

      Cheers!

      http://ozziesaffa.blogspot.com/2013/12/mandela-dead.html

      • Jrad

        You dont even know how old you are? Why we trust any of your ‘facts’

    • nych

      “Some things we wil never know”

      We KNOW he countenanced the killingbof innocents and he andbhis wifebopenly encouraged racism. He himelf admitted to it. This is not “Speculation”

      .”Let those who feed us untruths deal with the tangled web of lies”

      So…let those who already deliberately deceived us continue to conteol the dialogue. Itbis unpleasant and complicated so “peace and love, all get along, lah dee dah”

      “f painting a picture of Mandela as “godlike” was in fact a way to empower those that aspired to have a better life, then so be it.”

      SO painting a muderer as a saint and lying aboutvracism and genocide is ok if it makesnpeople feel good..because hurting da wittle feewings of da widdle wacists is just tewwibuh!

      “I would much rather appreciate the picture that was painted of Mandela, rather than the much worse one”

      I’d really like to picture Hitler as a beloved statesman who loved kittens and rainbows and never hurt a fly. That ok with all you historians,not to mention Jews, gays, Romani people, disabled, etc.? I mean..like omg! Who wants to think about, like, genocide and junk. Its all, like, a bummer and stuff!

      “One day our ego’s won’t control our actions and we might just all be able to get along. Hopefully that is what Mandela wanted :)”

      Yeah..good luck with that. ANYONE who wants power over others is ALWAYS EXACTLY whobyou should NEVER trust with said power. Power corrupts..and the corrupt are aleeady the most likely to gain power. As for what Mandela “really would have wanted”? Judge by his actions and words (all facts on record and not “speculation” as you alleged, even after admitting your ignorance on the subject)and you can see he wanted power and revenge. That is all.

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  • outis

    Hmmm, so what about the thousands of innocent people, many children, who were tortured to death by the apartheid regime? What about the innocents killed in bombings by the French Resistance during WWII or by the founders of Israel? We currently kill more innocent children in a couple months of drone strikes than were killed by the bombings noted above. Economic sanctions primarily impact children. Currently, thousands of children in the U.S. die of curable diseases because of our health care distribution system. I guess taking things like collateral damage a case at a time is too much thought, let’s draw a line that says state and corporate actors can do as they please, but people fighting for their own freedom are terrorists. As for taking money from dictators, so did Mother Theresa. Who was it that returned Khadafy to respectability? George W. Bush.
    Maybe the lesson to be learned is that you have to judge someone on the whole of their actions, taken in context. Not everyone is a Gandhi or a King, and Gandhi himself admitted that nonviolence would probably not work against a regime that didn’t have to answer to public opinion. A lot of whites in South Africa still don’t seem to get it that they were thieves and interlopers who still are advantaged by the system they set up, even if some farmers in the North are suffering a fate similar to that of the people they displaced. That Mandela was willing to try to break the cycle of “goes around comes around” is an awesome legacy. If anyone deserves to be on a pedestal, he does, warts and all.

    • Rudi Van Wyk

      Can you explain how whites in south africa are advantaged?

    • nych

      Not a single thing you said has any bearingb on what Mandela did or did not do or how rightnor wrong it was. Your level of thinking is like a preschool child who strikes another child and when punished says “Johnny did it too, and noone punished him, so I should never get punished for anything either. Especially the last bit was ludicrous, where you try to argue that just because my country and leaders commit senseless horrid atrocities (which I do not dispute), that this somehow affects in ANY WAY how someone else should be judged for THEIR actions. If every single person on earth raped someone tomorow, and I only kicked a couple kids in the face, do I get the Nobel Prize because “hey, at least I didnt rape anyone”?

      Also..this b—s–t
      .” A lot of whites in South Africa still don’t seem to get it that they were thieves and interlopers who still are advantaged by the system they set up,”

      Sigh..THE AYSTEM WAS ALREADY IN PLACE! Also..wives and children of these farmera were/are brutally gangraped tortured and killed. If you think ANYTHING that the apartheid regime did makes this rape torture and murder ok then please be honest enough to come right out and say “yes I think rape of women and children is awesome because hey..they havebit coming” If that is your argument you are a sick sociopath who needs to be locked away from civil society. If that WASNT your point then apparently you don’t have one.

    • http://nerdychick1983.blogspot.com/ nerdychick

      I agree, they are all just as bad as Mandela, and we should be calling out every asshole in power, They are all corrupt.

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  • Dalia

    America “The BrutaL” has killed more innocent people in the name of Justice than anyone should care to research…WTF I/m not going to spend my nervous system responding to this ish…

    • Lord_Steven_Regal

      If you call America “Brutal” for killing innocent people in the name of justice, then why do you consider it BS that people have reservations about the deification of Mandela if they believe he had a hand in killing innocent people?

      Your message is inconsistent.

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  • babes

    clearly ur views will b a reflection of which side of the fence ur leaning toward. onlookers makes the best critics, such a pity that u lack insight because u have not been a beneficiary of his work… clearly no political acumen there :(

    walk a mile in our shoes to inform ur ill equipped mindset

  • Mothboy

    I don’t remember why as I was a child, but when ever he came on the news my mother would swear at the tv saying how horrible he was and hoped he died and about him killing innocent people, being a racist and so on. As I grew older and he was on the news, everyone apart from my mum would say how great he was. My question is this, is there a decent book that tells the real truth about him so I can make up my own mind ?

    • UberboreanFaustoAryanSupaPowa

      You have to dig around on the internet. Suffice to say, your mother was right.

      • bob

        That someone who calls themselves ‘uberboreanFAUSTOARYANSUPAPOWA’ can have any legitimate say on the moral values of an equal rights activist is beyond belief.

        • UberboreanFaustoAryanSupaPowa

          The ole ad hominem. Nuff said, there.

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  • Steve Smith

    Wow a government bought some defensive measures for their country. US spend something like half a trillion a year on defense.. At his trial he pleaded guilty too….Now how many of those convictions was he really guilty of? Ignorance.

  • blitzen

    I’d warrant the buying of military hardware is possibly about keeping the military and various vested interests involved in military contracts happy, considering the propensity for new fledgling democracies (particularly in Africa) to suffer from military coups.

    • megapode

      Also there is more to defending borders than being able to see of Malawi or Mozambique if they start coming over all expansionist. At the time Mandela came to power SA’s military capacity was severely diminished after years of sanctions. This would have meant not only difficulty in resisting an attack, but also mean that things like enforcing fishing rights were becoming very difficult.

  • Wolfy Ghalkhani

    Pray for South Africa. if the whites are forced out then its over for that nation. just like it was for the former Rhodesia.

    • whoohaa123

      Unfortunately for the U.S., there has been a mass influx of racist SA assholes since the end of apartheid. Hopefully they will die off will all the American racist assholes or maybe they can be deported back to SA with all their racist BS

      • WhiteinAfrica

        Oh ye who knows nothing. Come to Africa, see, feel and live the truth or keep your opinions to yourself.

  • Nice? Kind? Guy

    Mandela is no saint.

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  • James Carmody IV

    in the end did he accept JESUS CHRIST as his LORD and SAVIOR
    HE is standing before GOD answering for everything he said and he did
    AS A CHRISTIAN IT IS NOT MY JOB TO CRITICIZE OR JUGDE !!! WE WILL SEE IF HE IS WITH ALL OF THE OTHER TYRANTS OF OUR PAST PRESENT AND OUR FUTURE
    GOD WILL EITHER GIVE OR NOT GIVE HIM GRACE & MERCY ON HIS SOUL
    ONLY GOD KNOWS
    GRACE IS GIVING HIM SOMETHING HE DOESN’T DESERVE
    MERCY ISN’T GIVING HIM WHAT HE DESERVES
    WE WILL SEE

    • James Carmody IV

      Mickey
      how is that profilingI i’m stating the facts of GODS WORD IN THE BIBLE !!! GOD and only GOD will place a guilty or innocent verdict on Mr Mandela Based on what I have read and seen people loved and admired him. but we live in a world that condones such atrocities against human beings that mr Mandela was accused and convicted his own admittance. The beautiful thing about JESUS CHRIST IS that he Forgive even the vilest of humans if they will confess and repent of there Sins.
      Mickey do you have a personal relationship with JESUS CHRIST?
      IF NOT PLEASE START ONE SOONER THEN LATER AND IT’S AS EASY AS OPENING THE WORD OF GOD AND ASKING HIM TO REVEAL HIMSELF TO YOU .
      WE CAN SIT A DEBATE ALL WE WANT ABOUT WEATHER HE DESERVES THIS OR THAT, BUT IN THE END GOD WILL GIVE EACH OF US WHAT WE DESERVE BASED ON OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS SON WHO DIED ON THE CROSS

  • JamesDay

    You crackers can’t stand it when the world loves a black person. LOL

    • Mickey Rayfield

      Not so James, who is ‘profiling’ now? James, an honest person is one who considers both the good and the bad in relationship to a leaders reputation and actions. One cannot truthfully judge the legacy of a person by willfully ignoring those things that might cast one in a negative light. If Mandela cannot be judged on the basis of ALL that he has done, good and bad, then he has lost credibility and is not worthy of the adulation given him.

    • fuck u nigger

      fuck u nigger

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  • IANupe104

    Mandela will NEVER have as much blood on his hands as the Europeans who invaded South Africa. Also I know EVERYONE has flaws. Everything he did was a REACTION to the ILLEGAL occupation of a continent/his homeland by Europeans so I can live with that. The blood he spilled (Ironically why he was in prison) does NOT come close to the amount spilled by the Illegal occupiers/ land thieves of South Africa. Pretty damn arrogant to condemn rebels for fighting against injustice. As far as being friendly with dictators…Whose primary residence is Buckingham Palace? And further more that Truth and reconciliation commission was a joke. All those lives taken and NO JUSTICE??? He needs to do some National Reflection before talking about another nation. One more statement.. Parts of the USA were still under “Jim Crow” laws and Lynchings were STILL taking place across the country around the same time they had the audacity to condemn South Africa for their Apartheid policies/laws. Lee Jenkins = Hypocrite.

    • Lord_Steven_Regal

      I agree it is arrogant to condemn rebels fighting against injustice, but people are more questioning targeting innocent civilians rather than standing up against Apartheid.

      But since you support rebels attempting to reassert control over their homeland, I’d assume that should the European people rise up against their governments that forced mass immigration and multiculturalism on them without their consent, and then the European people sought to reassert dominance of their homeland and non-natives that you’d be cheering for the European nationalists, right?

  • Robert Eckert

    You are blaming him for bombings that happened when he had been in prison for over twenty years.

  • megapode

    There’s nothing like fact checking. Certainly there’s nothing like it in this article. Where to start? Mandela entered a plea of not guilty at the Rivonia trial, famously saying to the judge “it is not I but the government that should be in the dock.” He was, in fact, never charged with murder nor with treason. The bomb at the Jo’burg station was nothing to do with the ANC. It was planted by one John Harris, a white man and a member of the African Resistance Movement, an off-shoot of the Liberal Party (the SA party by that name). Mandela was in jail and effectively removed from the MK command structure and any strategic discussions when the attacks listed took place. He was not head of the ANC (titular or effective) at the time.
    Artistic impression 7. Technical merit 2.5.

    • matey

      Why then didn’t he condemn the killings while he was in prison if he had nothing to do with them?
      Why not say “Not in my name” and say “These atrocities must stop”? His silence spoke volumes..

      • megapode

        I’ve dealt with this elsewhere: It was illegal in SA to quote Mandela (other than in court) or to publish pictures of him. He had no voice.

      • megapode

        And if you’re so concerned about things that don’t stack up, please concentrate on the original article. That is full of errors.

      • talita geyser

        Not sure how the man was supposed to “speak up” or condemn anything while he was isolated on Robin Island, with limited visitors and almost no interaction allowed with the outside world. He never claimed to be a saint, but he did show billions of people around the globe what kind of person he was when he was released from prison, and became the president of the first real democratic government in South Africa. The kind of person most people can look up to, respect, and learn from. Articles like this one can’t hurt the legacy of a man that was respected by most for his lifelong commitment working towards equality, freedom and basic human rights for all, regardless of race, gender or origin.

    • bob

      I don’t really understand how this has less up votes than half the racist bullshit on here.

      • JSal

        It’s a circle jerk.

  • The Internet’s English Teacher

    Please cite sources. Not only do you make many claims without any way to back them up, but you include a quote without any indication of its origin. While informational, none of the links proved anything. The only one which even mentioned Mandela did so to mention a donation to a children’s fund associated with his wife. If this were an academic paper, rather than a blog post, it would likely be throw in the garbage, and would be grounds for expulsion if it had been a college paper. The only way this would be acceptable if if it were primary knowledge, meaning you followed Mandela around throughout his life and collected all this information through personal eye witness reports, which is highly unlikely. That is not to say you are wrong, but there is no way to say you are correct, either; without citations, there is no way to know for sure. A simple list at the end of the post of the sources from which this information was obtain would suffice, though it is preferable that you add some sort of citation, whether through hyperlink or footnote, to point to the exact location of each fact. While negligible in blog posts of trivial nature, this post demands a bit of attention to such matters, as it is a matter of an individuals reputation, and can be considered slanderous if the claims are found to be untrue, given the weight some of them hold.

  • DanielHilliard

    Is this website some South African, White Nationalist, Expat website? You commenters are f__king idiots.

    • Lord_Steven_Regal

      You can disagree with the other commenters’ opinions, but most of the comments provide at least some facts which is more than can be said about your comment. The irony of calling other commenters “f__king idiots” is that there’s nothing more idiotic than the ad hominem attack with no other substance.

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  • Adriana Stuijt

    The whole world is mourning Mandela , from South Africa, Europe , Australia, New Zealand the US and even people in Asia are mourning him . From presidents, to politicians , from royalties, to the U.N , from celebrities to just ordinary people like us he was a great man to all of us and will never be forgotten irregardless what any of the racist may say about him , he will always be the remembered as a great man and will go down in history as a great man. RIP Mandela you will be missed greatly :(

    • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

      Racists? Brilliant – lets dismiss the fact that he belonged to, LED and ENGAGED with terrorist to murder men, women and children.

      lets dismiss the FACT he plead guilty to 150+ crimes against people, property, etc.

      let dismiss the FACT that when he became President, more whites were murdered at the hands of blacks for nothing more than being white. Whites, mind you that had nothing to do with Apartheid.

      Sure honey, we will dismiss all the FACTS out of fear that super duper intelligent people as yourself will label one a racist.

      Oh No……..SMH*

      • http://nerdychick1983.blogspot.com/ nerdychick

        Thank you! Him and his wife tortured many people who went against there political beliefs and they were fucking proud of that…how does that make him a good man?!

    • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

      “The source is none other than the Human Right Commission submitted as evidence to the TRC in 1997.

      The
      statistics they proffered relate to the number of blacks killed between
      the years 1948 up to the election in 1994. The total number of blacks
      killed were 21 000. That falls quite a bit short of 30 000 but wait, it
      gets more interesting. It’s not the full story.

      The
      HRC report also makes a distinction between two periods. One from 1948
      till 1989 and the next from 1990 to the election in 1994. The number
      killed for the period from 1948 until 1989 is 7 000. A helluva lot less
      than 30 000 wouldn’t you think?

      That
      means the number killed from 1990 to 1994 which is AFTER the unbanning
      of the ANC and for all intents and purposes apartheid had ended is a
      whopping 14 000, involving mostly black on black violence between the
      ANC and the IFP and various other factions! Not whitey’s fault.

      Of
      the 14 000 killed during those 4 years, 92% of deaths were caused by
      blacks killing blacks. Only 5.6% were attributed to the Security Forces
      at the time and usually in retaliation to attacks initiated by the
      ANC/UDF that had been unbanned. Remember Ciskei? The difference in % is
      due to unknown causes.

      What
      this means is that during the apartheid reign of 41 years, 7 000 blacks
      died compared to double the amount of dead in just 4 years! Let me
      break it down yet further, 170 blacks were killed as a result of
      apartheid ANNUALLY. That’s 170 people per year! That’s the HRC figures
      people! Sounds like an insignificant number now doesn’t it? Contrast
      that with over 200 white farmers dying annually since 1994.

      More
      blacks then were killed under De Klerk’s ‘new’ anti-apartheid
      government of 4 years than in 41 years of government under full blown
      apartheid! How good was the propaganda of the anti-apartheid movement
      eh?!”….. and NO, this is not to make light of deaths of any persons,
      ever…. just pointing out the FACTS, something one does not get to
      erase or ignore because it is not politically correct.

    • Wiliam Prince

      nope, he was just another nigger

      • Adriana Stuijt

        To you he might have been ,but not to the rest of the world . 99% of the world thinks he was a saint , a hero, a great man and nothing you or any one can say would change that , even the flags are flying at half mast across the world, you can stomp your feet all you want but mandela will go down in history as a hero, and he will be writing in the history books as a hero

        http://ewn.co.za/2013/12/06/flags-at-half-mast-across-the-globe

      • nych

        Please DO NOT take the side of those of us arguing against idolizing Mandela. We don’t WANT you on our side. I hate ALL racism…yours at least as much as Mandela’s. Go lynch yourself you ignorant redneck.

        • Wiliam Prince

          nigger is a nigger is a nigger, and those like you who sit on the fence will be wiped from the earth with the mud people when the revolution begins.

    • stuff2say

      well said Adriana…pity that there are still people out there that are out for blood even when its of those who have passed on. I totally agree with what you have said here. He was held in very high regard by many around the globe. His name and the good things he did will be talked about for generations to come. I can’t say the same about all those on here who sit behind a computer screen being all tough…good luck to you all. I for one admire Madiba, always have and always will may he RIP forever more

  • Cypress Rayne

    Apartheid was the last chance for Africa. Africans can continue to cling onto the UN for welfare and say they’re advancing but they’ll always be piggybacking off of other races. Whites for money, Chinese for construction. They’re a load of hairless apes and should be exterminated! Chinese economy is killing South African businesses as we speak. Blacks in China are treated like dirt and so they should be!

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  • D

    A countries stability is dependent on it’s ability to defend itself from tyrants who still continue to invade foreign lands and and remove it’s resources.As far as I’m concerned Mandela is not so different from your beloved 007.The only difference is he also was a professional boxer, lawyer politician and then a president of a leading Pan African State….so let’s all do each other a favour and not point fingers,Just because we need something to write about.

  • TruthSeeker

    Thank you for shedding light on this. Keep posting more information. The truth will set us free.

  • PFunk

    Do you think that the military purchases might have had something to do with SA having been under sanctions from all major weapons-producing nations except Israel for the preceding years? Their military wasn’t as well equipped as you pretend.

    Mandela certainly wasn’t perfect, but accusing a man of people evil because he fought a racist regime with force is ridiculous. Judge the man by what he achieved. South Africa isn’t perfect, and neither was Mandela. But find one other man on this planet who has managed to achieve anything along the lines of what Mandela did.

  • Neocortex

    You forget that he had to fight a terrible racist government that legalised racism and dehumanisation of the 80% black population of South Africa.
    The White’s Only government of the day was allowed to shoot and kill any black person suspected of trying to seek democracy and equality. Thousands of Blacks were killed in this way including many of their kids and family.
    They FINALLY resorted to using arms and terror to fight back. The Whites had them cornered to a point where even printing and distributing material seeking change was met with violence.
    The White Government military forces descended on a group of schoolchildren peacefully protesting about having to learn Afrikaans and opened fire on hundreds of school kids – joyfully (as seen on video footage) slaughtering them.

  • Billy Jean

    Learn from our history . Always remember that “terrorist” is a vague denomination that was meant mainly to justify international intervention and coercition everywhere nationalist organizations were trying to take over the control of national resources …Always remember that whenever someone is disturbing the existing international order, the existing international order has to make him evil to justify putting him aside of the field.
    Never forget who make “the black lists” and “the rules”. Who calls people “terrorists” ? and who really are the terrorists ? Mandela was not a terrorist . He was a nationalist fighting for its people right to use their own resources .

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  • jingo 69

    As leader of the MK he was responsible for all of their terrorist actions and should have been hung as a vulgar terrorist! Good riddance!

  • Jack A

    Reading this makes me sick! and us Brits get accused for being racist left right and centre?! We are the damn minority of our own country and also the bottom of the damn hire list for the foreigner’s have priority over everything we do! Something needs to be done ASAP !

    • RuariJM

      Nurse! The screens!

    • Tomtom28

      Welcome to Londonistan.

    • geeaiye

      blah blah blah stop the whining if the twat that wrote the article wants to spread hatred and lies bring it on let the truth be told it hurts that is why your whining

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  • Purple_turtle132

    Nelson Mandela was in Prison from 1964 till 1990 and the dates mentioned above are from 1983 to 1988? please explain, I understand that maybe it was Nelson Mandela MK terrorists but can you really hold him totally responsible for the actions of a group 20 years after he was locked up? The point you are trying to make would have had a lot more validation for me if you had stated dates in which is was actively involved. Also some source material to reinforce your information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

    • David Thornton

      Yep, no one has ever orchestrated or green lighted a crime from behind bars. (Eyeballs rolling)

      • stuff2say

        considering he was only allowed ONE visitor a year to see him going by what you’re saying he pulled of quite a lot. I think this article is sickening and a pathetic attempt at stirring the pot…good luck with that

      • DanielHilliard

        you watch too many movies you small brained twit.

  • magus777

    Sounds like every US president to me. So if Mandela was evil what does that make all of them?

    • nych

      Yes..the US government pepetrated many great evils up to and including war crimes against humanity. So did Mandela and the ANC. Must I REALLY remind everyone here about two wrongs not making a right? So much adolescent level “reasoning” on here…

  • Tino Sauros

    This is Crazy to think that people like you make comments like this, since you’ve uncovered the real truth behind Nelson, why not go back further. how did this struggle start. What where white skin people doing there in the first place. What resources and land was stolen in the first places, Gold and Diamonds that have made people very powerful. How many people have died in those Un-documented times.

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  • Adriana Stuijt

    99% of the world thinks he was a saint , a hero, a great man and nothing you or
    any one can say would change that , even the flags are flying at half
    mast across the world, you can stomp your feet all you want but mandela
    will go down in history as a hero, and he will be writing in the history
    books as a hero
    http://ewn.co.za/2013/12/06/flags-at-half-mast-across-the-globe

  • nelson mandela

    politcal terriorist

  • sayitloud

    This is the BEST!!! the MOST TRUE the ….what can I say but THANK YOU for this.
    Please understand, I did vote against apartheid but unfortunately, if you kill inocents, wheter they be black, white, green pink, women, children or whatever. If they are not part of the opposition millitary then you are called something….they call you a TERRORIST.
    Thank GOD I left.
    Unfortunately it is not about the cause, it was about the ways he achieved it. When you mentioned again the burning of the people in a tyre doused in petrol I could remember it so well, it makes you sick, but what was amazing was that the world just turned a blind eye.
    Well, I am not to say where he is today, but everyone believes something, so do I.

  • Tony Lenny

    So America became America by criminal acts fighting the British but you call it war you exploited and killed thousands of Africans through slavery,Britain ,France the Dutch and many others proffitted but when Africans do the same to win their freedom in their own country you call it teroism not war.Too many people are two faced and blinkered humans all want freedom and a right to live by fair and just rules.What has happened may feel like rough justice but you brought most of this on yourselves by not being fair in the first place,watch Cry Freedom then complain both blacks and whites were attacked for trying to do the right thing and show the outside world what was happening.

  • sayitloud

    Well, after reading more and more of the feedback here I have to say at least almost 90% has some brains. This article is so true. This morning when I opened up SKY and read all their feedback of “WORLD LOST A GOD”, “WE LOST THE HERO OF OUR TIME” and all the other rubish I felt actually ill.
    I have to say one thing…as for the movie about his time “Long Walk To Freedom”…I dont want to be sarcastic, but he died at a good time!!!

  • Yours Truly

    He never regarded himself as a saint. He was human like me and you both. Difference was his ability and push towards a forgiving and humane South Africa.
    Clearly you have missed the point, good job getting hits for your website though with writing an article which is aimed at smearing the human whose only lesson was love.
    Fucker.

    • Lord_Steven_Regal

      If you say that Mandela was complicated figure who was more human than the saint he’s portrayed as, and you assert that Mandela believed the same regarding himself, then why are you saying that an article that tries to show the more complicated, human Mandela rather than the cartoonish, saintly Mandela is “smearing”?

  • geeaiye

    if you didn’t go to another man land and oppress them then you would.t have all the trouble you have now so you have only yourself to blame stop going around the world stealing other peoples land and riches remember all the Zulu you killed because they were protecting their land

    • glebealyth

      Assuming you are African, your comment is a little rich when one considers that the history of Africa is one of constant inter-tribal warfare with lands being stolen by violence since the beginning of history.

      You seem to be indulging in sour grapes because a bigger tribe than any of yours won more than they did.

      It does not stop, even today –

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/thousands-massacred-as-two-tribes-go-to-war-in-south-sudan-6286342.html

      • geeaiye

        stop with the BS European history is all about war and conquests Normans invading other countries anglo saxon vikings French English war Spanish war list goes on and on so you my friend are talking BS no African country left Africa to Europe with the intent of Oppressing the people on their own land. Stop making assumptions I am British but black

  • ShutUp&Eat

    The point of the article: Don’t idolize him as if he were a god, because he was not.

    Recognize what he has done and move on from what more he could have done. Yet, what do people immediately do, put him on a great big pedestal and celebrate him as if he were a god. The stupidity of the human race,, never seizes to amaze me

    • megapode

      I don’t care to discuss the article’s point because it is all built on false foundations. Whatever point the author is striving to put across is built on untruths. How then can the point be valid or even worth discussing?

      • glebealyth

        So, you are saying that Mandela NEVER sanctioned terrorist acts?

        Or are you just content that two wrongs make a right?

        • hardrock

          Tell us how it goes when you become opressed & have to lead a nation, hot shot.

          • glebealyth

            Hot shot, huh?

            Unlike Mandela, I have never shot anyone.

            Unlike Mandela, I would probably have forsworn violence when offered the opportunity, had I been in his position.

            Unlike you, I do not consider 2 wrongs to make a right.

          • hardrock

            Unlike Mandella…you have never been any position close to anyone in that country. You’re one of those half-wits that bitches about what everyone else is doing or gets & then when something tragic or as simple as losing your job happens you are the first in line for sympathy & your share. Also,Two rights make a left. Quick tell us about your Christian values! Like forgiveness.

          • glebealyth

            I am not a christian, dipstick. Neither am I unforgiving.
            The diffference between us seems to be that I am not prepared to grant sainthood to Mandela, not any other toerrorist who passes up the opportunity to give up violence when it is offered to him.

            2 rights are an about-face. Equivalent to 2 lefts, only far brighter.

          • glebealyth

            Christian values, based on a book that condones and lays down rules for slavery?
            I don’t think so.

            Christian values, based on a book that gave the excuse for saying that black people were the spawn of Cain and less then human?
            I don’t think so.

      • BigDaddyDK

        If it’s built on false premises, it should be worth refuting. I’d like some sourced rebuttal to what the author said.

  • Martin

    Yea like united states lacks weapons.

    We dont care what you think!

  • James Jjink

    hes a hero but all muslims are terrorist mendela was involved in murder kidnapping bombings.Free Palestine

  • sayitloud

    Amazing…I know it’s me again but people like SHUTUP&EAT makes me proud to see, there are people with brains living amongst us.

  • geeaiye

    if you stayed in your country and left SA alone we would not be having this discussion. Since your people are evil and greedy you went to another man’s land and you got what you deserve all those Zulu’s you killed and innocent people you oppressed on their own land and you want them to say oh it is okay whitey we don’t care come take our land and riches your lucky Madiba did not nuke the whole od SA cos I would have. imprisoned him on his own turf and you have the balls to write BS. I hope a thousand flees infest your brain and that of your ancestors

    • glebealyth

      The actions you are decrying were the modus operandi of African tribes since the dawn of time.

      Sacking and pillaging neighbouring tribes, their lands, their livestock and their people for slaves has always been the African equivalent of soap opera.

      It does not stop –

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/thousands-massacred-as-two-tribes-go-to-war-in-south-sudan-6286342.html

      You are a hypocrite, and an ignorant one, at that.

      • geeaiye

        explain European history starting way back in case you do not know about the Vikings Saxons the battle of Trafalgar the English Spanish wars the roman conquest the crusades they were all peace loving and non tribal you are the ignorant hypocrite one and your brain is infested with hate and lies

        • glebealyth

          Yes, Europeans did it too. I never denied that.

          You seem to think that two wrongs make a right and that there is something different about it when the nations (tribes) involved are European and African.

          This is not the case, so stop your special pleading and hypocrisy.

          • geeaiye

            Who said anything about two wrongs you are spreading untruths so I am here to debunk So it was wrong for the colonial settler’s to invade another mans country but it was also wrong for the natives to fight back. if that is the case then why did the English defend themselves against the Germans

          • glebealyth

            You are trying to spread an idea that because Europeans invaded the territory of Africans that it was somehow more wrong than African invading the territory of Africans.

            This is disingenuous and dishonest.

            The point I am making here is that your appeals to the “wrongness” of the acts of Europeans in history are made without recognizing your own, bloody and warlike history of slavery, invasion and oppression of your neighbours.

            Unless you acknowledge that you are not pure and without blame, your special pleading that somehow it is all the fault of those nasty European, white people is utter hypocrisy.

          • geeaiye

            dude you are grasping for words or trying to put words in my mouth . You understand your history . Let us say Africans were doing that how did that affect the Europeans did you go there to stop these conflicts. Did that justify the enslavement of Africans in their own land. what about Australia did the aborigines do something to the settlers. So you explain your point what does African fighting among themselves have to do with the advent of slavery or locking a man up on his own land for 27 years pls explain

        • glebealyth

          Please be good enough to point out where I have told a lie.

          You seem more than content to put words into my mouth.

          I have never once asserted that it is right to invade anyone.
          I have never asserted that the Normans, Saxons, Vikings or Spanish were peace loving.

          You are suggesting that I did.

          What I am trying to establish is why you think it is a special case to condemn Europeans for doing what all peoples, INCLUDING AFRICANS, have done throughout history.

          You are resorting to special pleading and, thereby, spreading hate and lies by resorting to racial slurs and half truths.

      • Tomtom28

        Where do you think the slaves came from? They were captured by other tribesmen, sold to arabs, who sold them to slavers, who brought them to the U.S.
        And they’re still practicing human trafficking today.

        • geeaiye

          once again another lie if you want to read real history many tribes fought against the colonial punks but did not have guns or the fire power so they were outdone look up the Queen in ANGOLA WHO FOUGHT FOR WEEKS BUT EVENTUALLY LOST. IN LAGOS WHEN THE WHITEMAN ARRIVED HE UNSEATED A KING kosoko PUT THIER OWN PUPPET IN POWER Adeniyi AND TOOK ALL THE PUPETS RIVALS AS SLAVES In Nigeria nobody had navigated the river Niger till the white man came this led to more slaves being captured from this region. If the Blackman participated it was because he had no choice so stop with the lies . how did Hong kong become Honk Kong .

          • Tomtom28

            Nigeria? Isn’t that where you have the College for Con Men, Swindlers and Thieves?

          • geeaiye

            As we say to folk like you
            Your Mama
            that is the most befitting response for you.

        • glebealyth

          I know that.

          You know that.

          Just try getting geeaiye to admit it.

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  • LEEVANCLEEF

    People Suck !!!!

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  • David Webb

    The only one of these three “offences” for which he should be taken to task is being needlessly friendly with dictators. I fail to see how having a defence policy in an unstable continent qualifies you for criticism. As for the “terrorism”, as soon as he was able to stand peacefully for election, he did so and won comfortably. This, however, was not an option in 1950s South Africa, as the author is presumably aware.

  • John.

    The attacks you describe occurred when Nelson Mandela was in prison ! Are you seriously telling me that the aparthied SA prison service would allow him to organise a bombing campaign from his prison cell ? There isn’t a scrap of viable evidence to support this allegation. The problem with labelling Mandela a “terrorist”, when he clearly wasn’t and then using this label to imprison both him and many other ANC leaders, is that once the you take out the leadership, all you’re left with is the mob.

    If you look at the sad corruption and incompetence that surrounds the SA administration today, consider what might have been if Nelson Mandela had never been improsoned. and had been able to successfully lead a civil rights movement throughout the sixties and had been President South Africa from the end of that decade. Just as in the United States, people of all races would have been horrified at nasty and corrupt system that was apartheid,what had been carried out against non-whites in the name of “freedom and democracy”. The resulting public aclaim fand long presidency would have meant that South Africa would have been part of the family of nations, free, multi-racial and democratic. Because that is what he stood for.

  • WWW

    All the violent bombings happened when he was in jail. It’s not like he was there 2 or 3 years – he was there for a loooooooong time so it’s really hard to say for sure that he was really responsable for what was happening out there. Believe me, if they wanted to silence him, when he was in jail, they could have done it. We can never be 100% sure what happened there.
    I understand that he wasn’t a saint and his media image is really childish, but there are a lot of blank spots in the story. Sadly, people don’t realize it and decide to call him either a GOD or a KILLER.
    SA was in a terrible terrible place back than (not that it’s much better now). Just try to imagine being black during these times. Imagine the hatered and the opression you will suffer all the time. Oh right, you can’t do it….
    The point is, most black people would be quick to call him a Hero and discredit some of these “facts” while white people (especially the dude who goes berserk and posts the same shit all over again) would be quick to hate and not believe anything poistive about Mandela.
    Personally, I think that it’s a complex situatioan and over-analyzing “facts” is not relevant here. There are many things that we don’t know for sure and a lot of historical/ethnical context that we can’t understand.

  • WWW

    No Regime is perfect, so it’s understandable that while Mandela was a president there will be issues, especially in a country like SA.

  • Gerwyn Jones

    people are ignorant to what mandella did

    its not about black or white ,its about planting bombs and killing people ,he was NOT a good man

    • bob

      I think that Nelson Mandela’s acts were very much about ‘black or white’.
      His cause was the abolition of apartheid – I cannot justify his means but you cannot disconnect them from their cause.

  • Kendrick L-Office

    This was a very informative article. I just would like to add that every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future. The mere fact that the author of this article stated, “the great man himself has said all along; that he’s just as flawed as the rest of us, and should not be put on a pedestal.” is a great sign that he was everything a more to the people who forgave him#Mr. 300

  • babadax

    Wow I didn’t realize they went the whole other direction with this issue. First blacks then whites. Where does it end? Because I don’t believe they will be able to settle in the middle for a long time. Freedom fighters will be fighting the other freedom fighters etc. etc.

  • Anon

    Im extremely ignorant on this subject so excuse me but if he was in prison during the dates of those killings, how can they be pinned on him? Please enlighten me!

    • glebealyth

      Never heard of delegation, David?

      • Anon

        Ok. I’m not saying he had nothing to do with it, I’m wondering how, if he did…. is there any proof that he actually gave the go ahead for the acts? I wonder how much power he had over the group whilst in a maximum security prison….

        • J Simson

          Did he ideologically condone those acts? If he did, it is the same as if he had given direct orders

          • Ian Weaver

            I condone your murder, doesn’t mean I should get the blame for it.

        • glebealyth

          Where is the evidence that I ever endorsed slavery or transported slaves or caused suffering to slave from Africa?

          Despite that utter lack of evidence, it is being suggested that, somehow, I should feel guilty about it and should suffer by making recompense.

          I never gave the go ahead for any of it, yet the feeling among the liberals and the newly liberated is that I should pay for it.

      • JSal

        Ever heard of Proof? I think you may have been involved in the killings after all since we can just make things up….why not?

        • glebealyth

          By setting up and managing the organization, he is responsible for killings carried out by that organization.

          Your argument is saying that someone who founds Al-Quaeda is in no way responsible for any of its actions, even if those actions occur after the founder is imprisoned.

          We already have proof.

          Mandela WAS instrumental in setting up and running the ANC.

          • JSal

            Like I said no proof, just fuzzy logic. Who was instrumental in setting up Apartheid & what should their punishment be? Since that government body was in charge for years, is anyone that was associated with, worked for or benefitted from Apartheid responsible for murder?

          • glebealyth

            Your argument is a straw man.

            The fact that others set up apartheid and have or have not been punished is irrelevant.

            It does not alter the fact that Mandela, his wife and his comrades were, and are, Communists, committed to the overthrow of whatever state they happen to inhabit which is not communist.
            Their violent path did not produce the result they wanted and we now see a dysfunctional state with increased rates of murder, robbery and theft, where apartheid is being continued in reverse.

            No! The man does not deserve the status of saint.

    • Roy

      Unless you live in a bubble you will have heard of bribery and corruption. His organisation was d.

  • aj

    When you colonize other people’s land, YOU put YOURSELF in danger. I think, if this is true, mandela deserves some fault,but at the same time.What would YOU people do if colonists came in and treated YOU, the ingenious as second class citizens?

    It justmight be easy to start dehumanizing them..

    • J Simson

      Careful where you go with that logic. You will end becoming the next Breivik. He believed he was fighting Muslim colonizers of Norway.

    • jwbaumann

      You suggest interesting possibilities in resisting Islam.

      • J Simson

        My thinking exactly.

    • Freedom1

      Ingenious? lmao……. How many whites have been butchered under his regime. How many blacks have been murdered by other blacks? All races were better off physically and economically under apartheid. S Africa has become a cesspool just like every other African nation….Thanks to Nelson Mandela…

  • Mayibuye Magwaza

    I’m sorry, but point 1 is factually incorrect. Mandela was the founder of the MK, but every single attack you list took place in the 1980s. Mandela was in prison at the time, and he had no operational control over the MK. All of his communications were monitored, and he had no way of ordering or vetoing any of these attacks. You call them “his” MK terrorists, but frankly, seeing as you’re talking about an entirely different generation of people it’s rather like blaming the Mai Lai massacre on President Truman.

    • glebealyth

      Someone else who does not inderstand the concept of delegation.

      • Ian Weaver

        And how did he delegate from prison? How can any of these bombings be tied to him?

      • Mayibuye Magwaza

        How do you delegate when you are held incommunicado?

        • glebealyth

          By structuring your organization so that it can continue should you be unavailable to lead it.
          Mandela was a talented man.
          He obviously did this, or as you suggesting he was too stupid to build an organization efficiently?

  • justy

    Friendly with dictators? Give me a break …. you mean like the USA, Germany, England? If that would be a sign for a corrupt and unlawful government we all have that. As long as it’s of some economical interest.

  • talita geyser

    This article is not very accurate, somebody needs to do their homework. The acts of violence mentioned all took place in the 80′s, while Mandela was incarcerated. Not sure how these can be accredited to him, nor how it could have been mentioned at his trail, in the 60′s! I do not see the point in trying to damage the legacy of a man that wasted the best parts of his own life in jail, yet still working towards freedom and equality in South Africa! He was a giant, and deserve respect for everything he did once he became a free man, and the firsts president of the democracy in South Africa in 1994. At least give credit and honour where it is due, and let the man rest in peace!

  • Guest

    How did Nelson Mandela run MK and orchestrate all those killings in the 1980s when he was in prison serving a life sentence? Do you have any evidence to that end? MK did a lot of bad stuff in the time period specified but from 1964 and on Mandela was kind of busy being in jail under the constant scrutiny of government security forces to be masterminding bombing campaigns. Sorry, but I call bullshit on pinning the 1980s violence on him.

    • Ian Weaver

      Sorry, I didn’t realise you’d said it better.

  • Ian Weaver

    I notice all the bombings where there were any casualties all seem to have mysteriously occurred whilst Nelson was in jail? The author obviously thinks we’re pretty dumb and most btl seem to be.

  • thefearfulsilence

    Blimey. Based on some of the tosh here, and even though I am from the ‘colonialist’ UK, I myself get to hate, maybe even HAVE to hate, the Romans, the Vikings, the Normans etc for invading our shores. Does that mean I have to go out and kill a few Italians and French people? It’s justifiable for what they put my ancestors through surely. Geez the internet really does see the scum rise to the top very quickly, like the opposite of milk ;)

    • bob

      That explains why you’re prevalent.
      Something that ended far within living memory can by no means be likened to the invasion of the vikings. You don’t get to hate them – you ARE them. They are as much part of your blood as whatever you would refer to as ‘real british’.

  • MrOaiki

    Well, in 1983 Mandela was already in prison. Do you mean to say he planned them from there? I doubt it.

    • glebealyth

      Any organizational leader, and Mandela has proven that he was that, will put in place procedures and contingency plans to ensure that his organization continues to function in the way he/she wishes, should they not be available to do the leading.

      Simple management principles are also applied within terrorist organizations.

      • Ian Weaver

        Oh this was all part of a business continuity plan?

        Perhaps you should instead focus on the fact that when he was running the show bombings were purely sabotage – pylons empty buildings, designed to kill no-one and only actually killed one the of the bombers in an accident.

      • auberon

        He was such an amazing manager that he had plans in place for 20 years after he was imprisoned and people remained cohesive that long? Wow that is amazing.

      • Anon

        The first incident is about 21 years after his imprisonment. So by your presumptuous guessing, he “planned” that far ahead. A lot can change in that period so how on earth would the “contengency plans” stay the same?
        I was hoping you would have some real proof that he had anything to do with the planning of the bombings from within his maximum security prison. Unfortunately you have absolutely nothing.

        • glebealyth

          Whereas your guessing that he was not involved is not presumptuous?

          • Anon

            You back up your idea of his involvement by saying he was an organiSational leader, so surely he must have planned all of 21 years ahead. Not to mention adding another 5years on to his planning schedule to cover the last incident in 88. Thats 26years. I wouldn’t be suprised if you thought he could see into the future in order to help him make these calls.
            Whereas I consider the fact that he could not possibly have planned that far ahead and was held in a maximum security prison. Common sense prevails over what you think makes him responsible.
            You are utterly deluded. Bye.

          • glebealyth

            No. I am saying that if you stand on a hilltop and p
            ush a large boulder in the direction of a town and you never do anything to stop it, you are responsible for the consequences of your actions.
            Mandela was involved in the setting up and running of a terrorist organization at a very high level. He is responsible for the actions that he set in train, even if he was incarcerated afterwards.

            May your delusions continue to keep you from the responsibilities of life on this planet.

  • Milo

    WELL, makes me me happy to know he was not an “kind and cheerful Uncle Tom of SouthAfrika”, eh?? not a saint? so what? would you be in his circunstances??? whats wrong with you people???!!!!

  • DanielHilliard

    Poor South African whites….I truly sympathize with your hardships since you stopped oppressing the majority. You are the true victims of apartheid. I cant ser why the world doesnt acknowledge that. Maybe one day white people will get a fair opportunity for advancement in this world, just like the blacks! We can only hope. I have a dream…. lol……. you whining little greedy, lacking in any sort of perspective, cunts.

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  • DragropeJustice

    How dare you tell the truth about our AFRICAN GOD ON EARTH?!

  • andrew

    what was great about him is that he changed and became a better man…he saw and realized his shortcomings..He used forgiveness ass a tool to inspire the world and prevent a civil war. What is most inspiring to me was that transformation, possibly the most simplistically brilliant political move of his time!

  • Roberta Metalious

    I am amazed at the high hypocrisy…and the lack of knowledge regarding apartheid as to how violent the whites were…and the fact that some people believe it was during the time of slavery in the United States. Shameful. Very shameful. Such people should not be showing their ignorance by commenting.

  • allessior

    So why all the praise for this thug? Is the author saying that it is ok to kill innocent people and then be worshipped as a saint? Many, many innocen men, women, and children blown to bits by bombs that he ordered to be deployed. further, he supported dictators who were also brutal killers of the innocent. I never understood this mentality where evil people are worshipped, like that monster in Philadelphia who shot a polce officer multiple times and then finished him off with a point blank bullet to the head. I am appalled at the willingness of our politicians, conservatives included, to succumb to the political correctness of the name “Nelson Mandela”, terrorist.

    • Ian Weaver

      Pehaps read below, where it is explained that the bombings listed above happened while he was in jail – bit of a long stretch to pin them on him.

    • 20670

      I think he is saying it is acceptable to kill innocent people, take money from dictators who also kill innocent people and be a communist, as long as you say “I’m sorry”. Didn’t Obama just say “I’m sorry”?

      • auberon

        care to explain how he was responsible for any of these acts cited when they occure 20+ years into his prison term? Do even 3 seconds worth of research and find out what happened at Mandela’s trial and what he said about gurilla tactics.

        • JambaJim

          If you are the spiritual leader of a group. you still lead it’s basic outlook and tactics even if imprisoned. You may not lead day to day management, but even there you can have a substantial influence. This is true is US prisons, and it’s not a great stretch that it may (afaik not proven that it did) happen in South Africa. But Mandela himself says he regrets certain things he did, alluding to terrorist acts committed by the ANC.

          We like to set up people as all good or all bad, like the cartoons absorbed when we were 7. Batman and the Joker live fully the good or bad sides of the line, real people do not.

        • allessior

          NM did not denounce violence. The trademark of his group in NM’s younger days was bombs to create terror, chaos. Like a Mafia Don, he also directed and sanctioned acts of violence from prison. It is rediculous now that MK is being worshipped as a saint, yet, there was hardly a word of praise for Margaret. Thatcher, who was a key figure in the winning of the Cold War. In fact, Obama did not bother to attend her funeral. When we praise those who committed and/or ordered acts of terror but who later became renowned leaders, then from logic it must follow that any terrorist is potentially a great statesman, which is THE HIGHT OF ABSURDITY. We might as well not chase after terrorists to bring themmto justice, because as NM shows, any terrorist is potentially a great statesman. RUBBISH.

          http://afrikaner-genocide-achives.blogspot.com/2013/06/nelson-mandela-bombs-amanzimtoti-23-dec.html

      • allessior

        Yes, it is ok to kill, as long as in the end you have a just cause. If my government becomes oppressive, and I plant bombs by the Capitol in order to kill Congressmen, but as the bombs blow I also take the innocent, then as long as I become a statesmen and bring people together, then the killing of the innocent is forgiven and justified. Even conservatives, like Mark Levin, have recently praised Mandela. That is unbelievable to me.

        Anyway, this is how sick these LIBBS are. Actual FACTS mean nothing to them. They admire terrorists and THUGS, as they view things from afar in their ivory towers.

    • joh.n

      I guess you condone the vicious policy of apartheid then? And every “thug” is black, since you are so anti pc just call him what you really think he is

      • allessior

        You must be a LIB because everything you just said is pure fantasy. There is no way to logically deduce from my comment that I support apartheid, There is no way to deduce that I said every THUG is black. Pure, made up fantasy in your own mind. What I said was, and as tne article says, he killed innocent women and children and he supported others who did the same, like Ghadafi, like the Russian government, like many others. It is just a FACT, and I know LIBS like you don’t believe in FACTS, but it is a FACT that he killed the innocent for his cause. Just like the Clinton’s pardoning of FALN terrorists, LIBS can’t help themselves but to worship evil doers, like Mumia Abu-Jamal, who no doubt shot a policeman in cold blood, but who is worshipped to this day by the LIBS as some kind of folk hero. You see, FACTS don’t matter to LIBS. There is a reason for the term “sinistra”, the left, derived from the adjective “Sinistro”, sinister. This is indeed true…the lef, the LIBS, are indeed sinistet, evil, because they worship those who are evil. How did the families of the victims of the released FALN terrorists feel? How do the families of those innocents, killed by Mandela,

      • allessior

        feel when they saw Mandela being worshipped as a hero. What you are saying, in effect, is that as long as someone does good in the end, then the past transgressions, the past terrorism of the innocents, can be overlooked. That is bunk. My family members have been victims of terrorists, and I will NEVER forgive them, no matter how much good they do going forward.

        Go ahead, create fantasies in your own mind. Share your fantasies with us. Make up things that are not there. Perhaps in the end you will be loved as will, if you give up your evil fantasy games, and start believing in FACTS.

        • JSal

          So, Mandella should have never forgiven the transgressions
          put upon him & his people? What would you do to the people that did what they did to your family? You make no sense.

  • True_Fan

    It seems Caucasians want to tarnish his legacy and say he was violent and a terrorist. Well if you are white american, how do you look at yourself knowing you are the descendant of terrorist. Europeans darn near committed genocide against native americans after being taught how to survive in what is now america. If fighting against the oppression Mandela faced in South Africa makes him a terrorist, what does that make your ancestors. Also look at the years, he was in prison about 20 years, you mean to tell me Mandela (considered the most powerful enemy of SA) was able to run his organization for 20+ years from prison give me a break.

    • JambaJim

      Americans with white skin come from all over the world, and few of them have ancestors that were in the US in 1850, much less owned slaves. Do you denounce the attempted genocide in Rwanda and slavery in Somalia as loudly as you do people whose impoverished grandparents came to the US a century ago?

      Though you may not realize it, your statement is racist.

      • JSal

        You do realize the what the date July 4th, 1776 was don’t you?
        The US civil war fought from 1861 to 1865. Don’t let that stop you though.

  • joh.n

    I have read a lot of these comments and I can see most of you people both white and black are really retarded, human beings are flawed and no matter how we try, we are alwaysgoing to get it wronv now and then. Referring to the colour of someones skin would define is ignorant and superficial. If as human beings we are ever going to achieve peace in this world we have to reconcile and forgive, thats what Mandela stood for and thats we he was a great man.

    • True_Fan

      YOU ARE THE TRUE IDIOT. Race has everything to do with this topic, did you think apartheid was about gender or sexual orientation. lol

      • joh.n

        You are the idiot not me, because theres not such thing as race, apartheid would not exist if human beings where not so superficial and stupid like you

        • True_Fan

          Lol well you are living in euphoria, I live in a world where race exists. It is up to us to respect everyone’s race, that is where the problems lies. I hate that stupid saying, I don’t see color, YES U DO, just respect the differences.

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  • BorkSN

    Manson and Mandela did the same things.
    But their political motives were different from one to another.
    That’s all there is to it. Politically correct, you can do almost anything and get away with it.

  • Joyce Sen Nyakato

    Thank you for bringing out your opinions in a very respectful manner. However, all those bombings you suggest happened in 80s, when he was in jail. I know you are going to tell me he delegated them. He may have, he may have not. What if these people were fighting under their own orders for him to be released? I heard that a lot of S. Africans protested and killed too asking for his release. are you going to blame all those deaths on him because he inspired the fight on liberation?

    I am 27. I cant imagine all my life in prison. I am sure if i came out and became president, I would send all my tormentors back to their ancestral homes(not that it is okay. I am speaking of what a carnal person would have done). however, he did the contrary. For that he served worldwide acclaim he is being given, despite starting out with evil intentions.

    But then again, you cant blame him for wanting to fight. In 1950s, throughout Africa, negotiations didn’t work. Most countries had to fight for independence shedding blood in the process and it was worth it.

    It is foolish for any blacks to hold any whites accountable for the sins of their ancestors. Similarly, it is foolish reading a lot of “white’ blogs referring to us as savages who were saved by the “white” man. when you or your ancestors have never lived in bondage before, you never cherish what it means to be free. I would rather be free and have no computer and I-pad than be a slave to someone and have all that.

    I don’t blame “whites” for African problems, we would always have these problems anyway. However, already existing murders don’t justify a genocide. I hope all ends well in S. Africa.

  • BorkSN

    To kill is a universal crime.
    It does not matter if you do it even on behalf of the UN.

  • DanielHilliard

    Whaaaaaaa!!!! My ancestors started a race war in south africa by oppressing an entire race!!! Now that we’re losing…..we want it to stop!!!!!! Whaaaaaaaaa! Lol. You want to be upset with someone….write a letter to your father or grandfather who more than likely played a part in the oppression. Mandela was nice enough to forgive your ancestors by helping setting up the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and granting amnesty to the human rights violators. Everyone isnt so forgiving. Instead of moaning about him you should be thanking him. He probably saved your slag dads, uncles, grandfathers and brothers. You worthless, moaning shits.

  • Just a South African

    Let me start of by saying , rest in peace Mr Mandela , may God be the judge of the life you led , as a Leader to many , a Profit of peace to many , a father to many, a husband to many , a son, but also a terrorist , a murderer , and a true politician with as many hidden agendas as the Arch Bishop Desmond Tutu himself. (oops I correct myself ,Madiba only had two wife’s, sorry Madiba , it is our current President who has 23 wife’s who all lives in luxury of the working class tax payers money)

    I am a South African to the core , with what I can say as a 40 year old white male who was born in the what you call the apartheid regime (please do a bit of googling on where and who brought slavery to south Africa , who the “Boere” really fought and how land was then traded for, and not just taken like so many is led believe)
    now 20 years later in the new democratic country have survived through this without any real big changes in my life , well till about a year ago when I was laid of at work.
    I started my professional career in 1993 after I did my military service in 1992, as a white south African male it was compulsory to do your military service after high school(note other ethnics were not disallowed to join it just was not compulsory to them). I did my trade qualification in 1995 and have ever since worked my way up through studies and other courses. After I was laid off I have applied to many companies and many of the replies I got from most was I have all the experience and qualification but because of my ethnic origin I do not qualify. Still I am positive as I know I was brought up in a good house with good moral values and that hard work pays off in the end , yet it is my children’s future I fear most for in this beautiful country as the Legacy Madiba left us white South Africans does not look very promising for our children , and this includes other ethnic groups children as well. Our Education standards has dropped to below what I call 5th world countries. By having a President that has barely passed Grade 8 it can only teach the children that you do not need education or hard work to get to the top you only need to make sure you are black and stand out as a freedom fighter for people of the black oppressed, all be it 20 years later and all are equal or are we .

    I know this letter sounds a bit more about me and not the great Late Madiba and yes I probably could write a book about the real life of a Middle class South African , but this is not the place and not what I want to do or am able to do , I just thought I should give everyone a bit of background about the everyday life of a normal son, father and husband , so that you understand why I feel compelled to add my thoughts to your blog.
    Lets just start of by adding my bit about the bombings and not only the ones you mentioned below as those are the ones you know of and was made public to the rest of the world through propaganda , Mandela like any other soldier fought for a country he believed to be he’s peoples land and not that of any white South African,and like the Americans have their history of battles against the indigenous people(Indians) it all was more about politics and power and like in the Americas also in this country owning land means you have power. What I have a problem with was in the ways these bombings took place. It was in total disregard for the innocent , woman and children. And yes he could have orchestrated it from Maximum prison , His first couple years in prison was probably not so nice as he was seen as a mass murderer and communist , but tell me how can someone with no education get a BA Degree in law while in maximum prison , and not be able to communicate any orders to the MK????
    He definitely had some influence and power while in prison.
    Secondly , when I was a kid I did not hate blacks , and I can tell you most of us did not hate them , we disliked only those that had total disregard for others , the senseless killings , the disregard for other peoples property and their morals( the rape of a two year old is ok , it will heal you from HIV) please look at statistics and not propaganda its a fact that more than 90% of the violence in this country are black people killing themselves and white farmers or burglaries that go south , the actual backbone of our countries economy.This is what apartheid meant to us white kids growing up . Blacks have there area and that’s it . Point Did you get that ! We were not taught to hate them , nor were we not taught they weren’t human or did not deserve to be treated as such. They had their own shops , own schools which by the way was exactly the same as ours with same standards , but just like today they do not have regard for it and they have no discipline. They don’t believe that they must earn their way but it is their right as they were previously disadvantaged. Let me tell you they were not , and if they want to blame anyone for their disadvantage they should stop blaming the previous regime or the white man , but their own fore fathers who did not teach them values or send them to school when it rains so hard that most schools closed down like my parents did , those who did not earn , those who believed we owe them. I worked with many black people in my life and the same age as me the same education as me , I just wonder how they got their education , and funny thing was I never heard them complaining about apartheid.
    So Madiba , thank you for confessing for your sins and thank you for trying to repair a broken country , you really did make a difference in many peoples lives and will for many years to come , that is if our current corrupt government don’t pocket it first. I feared the day you lay your head as I believe even when you were not president anymore you still had an influence on the powers in our country , but lets just hope I am wrong and this country does not become another Zimbabwe.

    • Joyce Sen Nyakato

      “Point Did you get that ! We were not taught to hate them , nor were we
      not taught they weren’t human or did not deserve to be treated as such.
      They had their own shops , own schools which by the way was exactly the
      same as ours with same standards , but just like today they do not have
      regard for it and they have no discipline. They don’t believe that they
      must earn their way but it is their right as they were previously
      disadvantaged”

      This is where you lost me. of course, you not taught to hate them but the systems put in place made them feel that way. Everything is very easier said than done. it is easy to ignore all the psychological burden this had to do on the entire race as a whole in the country compounded by the fact that this had been done to them in their motherland.

      I am sorry that you are not able to get a job, that is racism. However dont try to justify the sins of your forefathers in any way. I would rather be free than be educated!!

      • Just a South African

        Joyce, like I said I did not agree with apartheid nor did I live it and I cannot justify things I never lived , and yes I am really sorry to those who really were treated wrong , but the fact remains that majority of the black youth of today and if you are around 19 years old only heard of apartheid and not lived it still feel we white people owe them , when even as a forty year old male I have never acted inhumane or seen another white person act inhumane towards a black person , but I have seen many black folk do it to their own kind while I did my military service. And as for me not getting a job , thank you for being sincere , but you know what I am doing fine, I took my situation and turned it into something positive by starting my own business , because crying racism is not going to provide for my family.PS,”I would rather be free than be educated!! “what is the use of being free but you do not have the mental capacity and tools to provide a future for yourself and your children. Do not under estimate the importance of a good education. I still have a concern that with the current state of affairs in SA , the education , BEE I have a real concern as what future our children have in SA.

        • Joyce Sen Nyakato

          and I totally i agree with you. youths who are 19 have no business complaining about the apartheid especially if they are able to go to school with the benefits afforded to them through BEE. they are better channeling their energy into school. I am black. I lost my parents. I was born poor like many south Africans. Difference is i had no whites around me to blame. so i took it upon myself to take my education seriously and get a job. right now, I am in the U.S doing a masters. The kids around me are not any more special than I am. That’s the attitude.

          The whites accumulated so much wealth during the apartheid era that despite any efforts, it is gonna take an entire generation to try to achieve the equality. Any efforts to see an immediate result is going to sink the economy by alienating the whites who are taking their riches into other countries.

          In America, the affirmative action saw results immediately because the blacks are the minority. In south Africa it cant work immediately. it will take a long time. and in the process the government needs to tap man power from the whites, who have the experience for now while slowly integrating the blacks in the mix. it doesn’t make sense to employ people who are not qualified for a job for the sake of their race.

          the best way to do it is buy empowering the poor(Blacks and whites) to go to schools through scholarships. when these people attain good education, they are bale to compete with the whites on the jobs,on a basis of qualifications, not RACE.

          Give people the hooks and let them fish for themselves.

    • geeaiye

      You ever wondered if your ancestors sat thie ass down in their own country you may not have the problems you are having now.

      • just a South African

        You know I have to be honest , twice; once when I was about 8 years old(early eighties) and now that you mentioned it again Those years I thought what the heck are our minority white folk doing here ,trying to teach or educated people who rather be cooking their food over bon-fires as to using electricity , or build roads bridges and infrastructure if the majority would prefer to walk through the bush , the majority who’s young men die every year because of their ancestral ritual and believes(referring to circumcision ritual) , but hey let me also blame my ancestors for this just like you. Its all crap , I only knew and cared for people as far back as my grandparents , and how hard they had to work to provide for our family, and to ensure I get an education so that one they I can give my children the same and better. O and by the way , the problems I have you refer to I have, are past tense , I just used that situation as an example of what is happening in this country ,and not only to me,but since then I started my own business because contrary to most people crying apartheid , I did not blame my fore fathers or the black people or white people and demanded employment , I took what I learned from them to provide for my family , because that is how I was brought up.

  • White African

    Any chance here of some comments on the article above, rather than the irrelevant inaccurate statements and slander currently in the mix?
    Firstly. …..all the above bombings took place while Nelson was in detention and he was not then responsible as leader of MK for these actions…….

    Next point on arms purchases. ….given that south African military had been subject to sanctions on all military hardware so there for all hardware was manufactured in SA and often crude but effective.

    …these purchases simply modernized the SADF in relation to there neighbours as well as the world at large…….and given how the ANC came to oower one can forgive them for being a little paranoid no?

    Last point on Mandela Canoodling with dictators……re Suharto……I think he was simply thanking him for supporting the ANC over a period of time…….Sani Abacha …quiet diplomacy was always Madibas style and often paid dividends.

    So quite frankly this article is inaccurate and clearly has a sour grapes agenda and the comments made thereafter …….irrelevant as well as somewhat disturbing.
    BEE isn’t a perfect system by any means but there were many things that needed redressing……..and any system that was implemented would always be subject to scrutiny.
    Contrary to urban myths of white south africans that gapped it ….those that stayed and made the effort to integrate are doing very well indeed.
    Like any other place on this planet sometime we have to look further than our own backyard to make a living.

    • geeaiye

      White African that sounds bloody hilarious
      But let me call myself English black or British
      They used to tell me
      ani’t no black in the Union Jack.
      White African and then you complain of BET TV black music Awards
      You want to have all the cake and leave no crumbs.

      • WhatsInAName

        Why is it so crazy? After all, humans originated in Africa.

        • geeaiye

          Really so with all the places on earth every Human came from africa. if you want to believe that go ahead. I have African blood in me but I do not subcribe to the everything started in Africa BS.

          • Roy

            Genetic testing of tens of thousands of people from all over the world proves beyond doubt that every present day human outside of Africa comes from a small group of people who left Africa about 60,000 years ago.
            https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/about/

  • David Roberts

    Its strange reading comments on this page that has nothing to do with the article e.g. The problem with the argument regarding slavery is that their own people sold them into slavery. Black africans sold their own people to the whites so they are equally responsible. One thing we can say that all people throughout history was a slave at one point .e.g eqypt, roman empire etc. Going on to the issue of Mandela, there is no doubt that Mandela had some blood on his hands and so too did the apartheid government. One thing we have to remember that democracy in SA could have not been achieved if it was not for Mandela and De klerk putting their differences aside to save the countries future. Overall Mandela will always be remembered as a great South Africa for bringing believing that we have to unite for the common good whether we dont see eye to eye instead of going to war after he was released – we have to acknowledge that.

  • geeaiye

    dude you are grasping for words or trying to put words in my mouth . You understand your history . Let us say Africans were doing that how did that affect the Europeans did you go there to stop these conflicts. Did that justify the enslavement of Africans in their own land. what about Australia did the aborigines do something to the settlers. So you explain your point what does African fighting among themselves have to do with the advent of slavery or locking a man up on his own land for 27 years pls explain

  • outsider

    Saddest thing for SA is if the legacy of Mandela (he did help bring about change for the better and should be remembered as a truly gifted statesman) is torn apart by discrimination the other way then the future for SA is indeed bleak. No other African state ever seems to have managed stability and harmonious relations between black and whit so far as I know. Folk have to forget the past and build together. The question for me is can the memory of that truly great statesman help to bring about an example to the world, or will SA simply become another state ruled by despot after despot. I really hope the people of that nation (and no I’m not f rom there) remember the good and try to build on that. Sure there’s bad too but if all we do is to gaze in hatred, then everyone will lose.

  • why u do that

    you people are dumb
    assssssssssss

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  • Maggie Bennett

    every fucking political leader maybe with the exception of the founding fathers, who wrote the constitution to keep the gov’t a little weaker than the people, are corrupt, lying, fucking morons and all have blood on their hands (some more than others) but no one like Daniel should be pushing his views on everyone else and downgrading what people think. being a soldier I fight for the constitution and everyone has freedom of speech!!

    • DanielHilliard

      i’m not saying they shouldn’t be able to say what they want. but i certainly can’t respect people who lie and rewrite history. they should be downgraded. they should be shamed for being retarded until they want to stop feeling like a retard so they choose to educate themselves and let the ignorance go.

  • Pingback: DYSPEPSIA GENERATION » Blog Archive » 3 Things You Didn’t (Want To) Know About Nelson Mandela

  • allessior

    The LIBS love evil. The LIBS love terrorism. The families of Mandela’s victims most likely feel differently, but what the heck, it was a JUST CAUSE, right? NOT! My family has been victimized by terrorists. No matter how much good these terrorists decide to do in the future, I will NEVER FORGIVE them. They should ROT IN HELL, even if they develop a cure for cancer. Why? Because my little one was standing there, cheering his uncle on in the Boston Marathon, waving a flag and smiling from ear to ear. Then suddenly, the terrorist bomb ripped my little nephew into 1000 unrecognizeable pieces. If these SCUM terrorists become civic leaders, and end all racial animosity, if they cure AIDS, if they enable world peace forever, I STILL WANT THEM TO ROT IN HELL. When it is my turn, I will meet my nephew in Heaven, and spit down upon those scum who took my little one. My little one will be there to help me with the spitting.

    • Red Cabbage

      DING! DING!

      Call off the search! We’ve found the stupidest person on the internet!
      allessior! allessior! allessior! allessior!

      • DanielHilliard

        lol. ahhhh man. nice.

      • allessior

        Ladies and gentleman, as you can see, Red Garbage makes very concise, cogent arguments to support his positions.  For example, his primary thesis is that the American Revolution was akin to Apartheid, and that revolutionaries were in fact not intent on killing the adult enemy (the British soldiers) but rather, the American revolutionary guerillas went about planting bombs where they knew children would be, to kill children and women as a scare tactic, a terrorist attack if you will.  You can see support for this brilliant thesis by the extremely well written phrase, “allessior!  allessior!  allessior!  allessior!”. You see, even though most novice political junkies would not be able to understand it, Red Carnage uses a very rare technique, where the “rhythm” of the phrase acts as a code for the actual thesis.  Luckily, having studied the behavior of the Neanderthal, I am one of the few that can infer the argument that Red Riding Carnage is making, namely, that the revolutionary guerillas used the killing of women and children as a terror tactic to get their way with the Crown, just like Nelson Mandela did.  Fortunately, that was not the case, but rather, the Americans were intent on taking as many British soldiers and political representatives as they could, never ever using the citizenry, in a purposeful manner, as guinea pigs to make a point.  

        However, you cannot argue with the sheer genius of Red Robbin’s arguments, since “allessior!” used in repeated rhythmic ways conveys several meanings that only people of such ungenius can make.  

        And Red Ranger also helps us understand the kind of critical thinking necessary to participate in such debates.  Many readers might conclude that using a person’s name in repetitive fashion indicates a lack of intelligence, a lack of cogency, an inability to develop a thesis and properly support the thesis with factual data.  But alas, Red Robin Hood has the last laugh because his use of repetitive, Neanderthal  patterns accomplishes the same thing, but only for those capable of understanding what seem to be nonsensical patterns of dribble, but are in reality some form of conveyance that very few can understand.

    • DanielHilliard

      In your eyes… the American revolutionaries were terrorists too then? Red Cabbage was right. You really are the stupidest person on the internet. If you want to honor your nephew… educate yourself so you stop sounding like a ranting, uninformed retard.

      • allessior

        Typical LIB, resorting to name calling instead of making an intelligent, cogent argument to support your case. Was your child one of the children killed by a Mandela bomb? There are many such parents and grandparents who lost a little baby or toddler to a Mandela bomb. If Hitler had decided to reform after killing 6 million Jews, that is, if he brought everyone to the table’ called for peace, released prisoners, built homes for the Jews, helped them build a nation state, and generally brought people together and became a statesman, would you have supported Hitler then? If I go out today and plant bombs, and kill thousands for my “cause”, but I then became a healer, a moderator, an evangelical for peace, would you firgive me if one of my bombs had killed one or more of your loced ones? Let’s hear your argument, let’s hear your thinking. If all you have is vitriol, then that proves mybpoint: LIBS are terrorists at heart, leftists, communists, those who beleve in terror for a just cause. You expressed it in your juvenile rebuttal. In the mean time, my nephew is bliwn to bits, in heaven, killed by one if your kind, the kind that cannot stand to hear FACTS, the kind that expresses hate because you can’t express a decent thought.

        • DanielHilliard

          you really are the stupidest person on the planet. liberals are terrorists? HAHAHAAA!!! you little nephew was blown to bits by my kind?? LOL. You think the Boston Marathon bombers were liberal??? HAHAHAAAAA!!! They were like you… just a different belief system. You think Hitler was a liberal numb nuts??? You think Osama Bin Laden was a liberal numb nuts? THESE PEOPLE ARE ALL CONSERVATIVES LIKE YOU!!!! You are likely to be the next bomber, because you’re an idiot and a psychopath. Granted, Bin Laden and Hitler were both about a million times smarter than you. Liberals believe in tolerance and equality and living with each other. Hitler andBin Laden and you believe in my way or the highway. Us against them. But obviously I’m wasting my time by comunicating with the dumbest person on the planet. I wish that bomb had blown you to bits. You’re a f*ckin idiot of the highest order for sure.

          • allessior

            DanielHilliard, the evil is just dripping from you. Look at your typical LIB reaction, full of hate. I can tell you are possessed by a daemon, as are most LIBs, because instead of offering an “adult” counter argument, you are offering nothing but name calling and poison. And that just inducates, as with all LIBS, that you don’t have a fact-based, reasoned counter argument. Yes, my neohew was killed by a terrorist in Boston. I had a very simple question for you which you arecapparently incapable of answering. The question is, if these terrorists go on to become great moderators, great staresman, whill you forgive them for killing the hundreds of innocent people in Boston, or will you seek to have them punished as they deserve? Try to answer the question without resorting to Red Herring style name-calling and insults. Show us that you have at least a gram of intelligence and try to form a thought.

          • DanielHilliard

            they didn’t kill hundreds of people in the boston marathon. you’re a liar, an idiot and a psychopath who is clearly mentally unstable. you should keep watching fox news all day… i’m sure it’s doing wonders to help your mental instability.

          • allessior

            Again, typical LIB behavior: inability to answer a direct question with a direct answer. Instead, you resort to poison, vitriol, name calling, and hate. I will try to help you by attempting to exorcise the daemons in your body with this prayer: “Dear Lord,,the Almighty, please cast away the evil inhabitants of Daniel’s body. Please provide him with the ability to write and speak with kind intelligence, instead of vitriol and hate for his fellow man. Please help him to control the bowel movements eminating from his mouth so that his words are without filth. Please help prevent Daniel from use of violent rhetoric as it could turn into physical manifestation. Lord, it is evident that the evil spirits within Daniel are Legion, and likely consist of Satan himself. Daniel is your creation, so as with all of God’s creations, we must at least try to save him. In your name, Jesus, we challenge the daemons but telling them to BE GONE, BE GONE, BE GONE from the body and mind of Daniel. We ask you this in the name of The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit, Amen.”

        • DanielHilliard

          you might as well blame yourself for blowing up your nephew……because it was certainly someone who thinks the same way that you do. i’m pretty sure the marathon bombers who “killed your nephew” were trying to destroy American liberal policies as well. So they would have been your friends. Blame yourself sh*thead.

  • screagle101

    If he’s a terrorist, then by that standard, so were the founding fathers, and members of the confederacy.

  • Jeff

    Why was apartheid a “crime against humanity”?
    There were good reasons for that! Only this way South-Africa could become a high-level civilized country.

    • jackscht

      Was it not before 1948 when the NATS won the limited election? Why didn’t everywhere need Apartheid to become a ‘high-level civilised country then?

  • Red Cabbage

    So your argument is that not one word of praise should be uttered for Nelson Mandela ever, his image burnt and forgotten, his name stricken from history ALL because he acted like every American President ever? And remind me which one of them spent 18 years in prison?

    An alternative title to this article could be “1 thing you probably already knew about Lee Jenkins–he’s a tremendous douchebag.”

    P.S. There is no such thing as being a murderer through the transitive property. You either pulled the trigger or you didn’t.

    VIVA MANDELA!

    • jackscht

      Well said but that should be 27 years in prison.

  • Dan Vasquez

    How did Mandela kill all those people if he was in jail during that time?

    • geeaiye

      voodo

  • TheSpasticAvenger .

    I wish Abraham Lincoln had lived

  • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

    Mandela passed on control over the ANC and South Africa to Thabo
    Mbeki, his longtime comrade and a “former” SACP member. Mbeki
    subsequently lost out in a power struggle with another Mandela comrade
    and prison mate, Jacob Zuma, also a “former” SACP member, who is
    accelerating the ANC’s destructive policies as the current president of
    South Africa.

    • Zuma has continued the Tripartite Alliance, the formal agreement
    among the ANC, SACP and COSATU, which guarantees that the SACP and the
    Communist-dominated COSATU will back the ANC as the Communist-run front
    group that runs South Africa.

    • In 1998, at age 80, Mandela married for the third time, to Graca
    Machel, the widow of Mandela’s longtime ally, Samora Machel, the
    ruthless Communist dictator of the People’s Republic of Mozambique.
    Graca was a longtime member of FRELIMO, the communist terrorist
    organization run by her husband that took control of Mozambique in 1975.
    For more than a decade, she was a partner in Samora Machel’s vicious
    reign of murder and torture of men, women, and children, including even
    many of his FRELIMO comrades whom he turned against.

    ~_http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/africa/item/15888-saint-mandela-not-so-fast

    • jackscht

      Dumb dumb please tell us all the names of all the corporations that your so called ‘communist’ South African ANC government has nationalised in that case…as they are communists according to you. [I'm a Socialist [just like jesus christ] and wish they had]

      So what if Mandela married Graca Machel, two elderly lonely people. Her husband had been assassinated by the racist white Apartheid dictatorship after bravely fighting a war against the RENAMO terrorists armed and supported by the racist white dictatorships of Apartheid South Africa and Ian Smiths pariah sanctioned state of Rhodesia.

      • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

        I did not realize Jesus Christ labeled himself a Socialist. I also did not realize Jesus Christ advocated for people like YOU to steal from those who work and give to free loaders who refuse to. Remind where this is written so I can view it? Thanks!

      • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

        And how many WHITES has the terrorist and racist Mandela ANC=MK group murdered? Hell, how many BLACKS did Mandela’s terrorist group murder, see necklacing for reference? HINT: more blacks were murdered by blacks during Apartheid than whites murdering blacks. Not my numbers, rather the Human Rights Commissions numbers.

        But shhhhhhhhhhhh – pesky little fact!

  • DanielHilliard

    75% of the conservative retards posting on this comment section don’t even know what apartheid is. lol. a thick group you guys are.

    • glebealyth

      100% of the DanialHillards posting on this comment section don’t even know what rational thinking is.
      lol. A thick group of guy you are.

      • jackscht

        And you do? ha ha ha

        You are an advertisement for abortion if ever I’ve seen one.

    • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

      Sugar britches – we are all very well aware of what Apartheid WAS. Problem is, you left wing Socialist Terrorist try DESPERATELY to rewrite history. Problem is, you cannot get in sync with all other organizations across the globe.

      HINT: Humans Rights Campaign revealed that MORE BLACKS were murdered during Apartheid by OTHER BLACKS than by WHITEY!

      • jackscht

        And? there is no correlation in your tiny mind between murder and abject poverty, violence, torture,mass displacement of populations,slave labour…..and the Apartheid policies? Really !! it’s just those pesky blacks that can’t help killing each other while herded into their ghetto slums by us whites lounging by our swimming pools.

        HINT: YOU have the audacity to use the word DESPERATE. Ha ha ha bloody ha.

        • DanielHilliard

          you are 100% right. i would have told him the same, but it’s a waste of time really to try and explain to these people anything that involves common sense. Of course if you starve a people and give them poverty, there will be more crime amongst themselves… does the fact that they committed more crimes against themselves while forced into poverty than whites committed against them legitimize apartheid? OF COURSE NOT. But these people on this board are crazy. they will point to it as some sort of concrete proof that white people implementing apartheid wasn’t a problem. the stupidity levels on here are off the charts.

          • jackscht

            And those ‘crimes’ were committed against collaborators with the regime, often just to try and survive admittedly but there, it was a matter of life and death. What’s the excuse with Manning and Snowdens treatment.

            Yes, with this lot it’s pointless, they just want to reinforce their point and not hear anything that would disprove their belief, like trying to argue with a religious fanatic that there is no proof of an omnipotent superbeing god.

          • Lord_Steven_Regal

            “Of course if you starve a people and give them poverty, there will be more crime amongst themselves”

            Why has the black South African crime rate skyrocketed over the twenty years after white rule if the black South African crime rate is, as you suggest, a byproduct of the whites starving black South Africans and forcing them into poverty?

            Based on your hypothesis, the black South African crime rate should be dropping the further away from white rule we get, but the opposite is occurring.

        • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

          YAWN! Then blacks need to stop allowing themselves to be enslaved on the Democrats Government Plantations whereby the GOVERNMENT dicates your piss poor education + food stamps + welfare + section 8 housing + health care ……… they give you just enough to get your head above the water whilst keeping you from climbing out of the water.

          Prove me wrong.

          • DanielHilliard

            hey. dumbfuck. you’re talking about America. This is a conversation about South Africa. I know you’re well too fucking stupid to understand that there are cultural differences between America and Africa…. but put some effort in you shit bag.

          • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

            Dear Illiterate dip shit – you clearly miss the fundamental EXACTION of the government in South Africa and in the US. BOTH enslave their peoples, either by force, by government dictated means or both as seen in South Africa.

            Africa has the HIGHEST enslaved peoples in the world, this includes SOUTH AFRICA. – FACT!

            Africa, including South Africa via government force and corruption keeps a good portion of its people poor and dependent on the government to be thankful for whatever little bread crumbs they throw at them. – FACT!

            Africa, including South Africa has no issues killing its people for not going along with their political ideology. Thankfully not something known to happen here in the US.

            With your feeble mind, you clearly missed the point. Though in fairness, I should have left it on topic to SA only.

    • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

      the source is none other than the Human Right Commission submitted as evidence to the TRC in 1997.

      The statistics they proffered relate to the number of blacks killed between the years 1948 up to the election in 1994.

      The total number of blacks killed were 21 000. That falls quite a bit
      short of 30 000 but wait, it gets more interesting. It’s not the full
      story.

      The HRC report also makes a distinction between two
      periods. One from 1948 till 1989 and the next from 1990 to the election
      in 1994. The number killed for the period from 1948 until 1989 is 7 000. A helluva lot less than 30 000 wouldn’t you think?

      That means the number killed from 1990 to 1994 which is AFTER the unbanning of the ANC and for all intents and purposes apartheid had ended is a whopping 14 000, involving mostly black on black violence between the ANC and the IFP and various other factions! Not whitey’s fault.

      Of the 14 000 killed during those 4 years, 92% of deaths were caused by blacks killing blacks. Only 5.6% were attributed to the Security Forces at the time and usually in retaliation to attacks initiated by the ANC/UDF that had been unbanned. Remember Ciskei? The difference in % is due to unknown causes.

      What this means is that during the apartheid reign of 41
      years, 7 000 blacks died compared to double the amount of dead in just 4
      years! Let me break it down yet further, 170 blacks were killed as a
      result of apartheid ANNUALLY. That’s 170 people per year! That’s the HRC figures people! Sounds like an insignificant number now doesn’t it?
      Contrast that with over 200 white farmers dying annually since 1994.

      More blacks then were killed under De Klerk’s ‘new’ anti-apartheid
      government of 4 years than in 41 years of government under full blown
      apartheid! How good was the propaganda of the anti-apartheid movement
      eh?!

      Let me summarise, this needs to sink in:

      1948 – 1989: 7 000
      1990 – 1994: 14 000 (of which 92% as a result of ‘black-on-black’ violence)

      Really, is this the death toll of the “heinous” apartheid system the world grew to hate? Just 7000 deaths? And was it the worst thing to happen in the 20th century? Um, let’s look at the Left’s favourite socialist/
      communist/ marxist/ dictators leaders to name but a few:

      Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39) : 23 million (the purges plus Ukraine’s famine)

      Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) : 78 million

      Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79): 1,7 million

      Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78): 1,5 million

      Apartheid: 7 000.

    • Dan

      Not a conservative and I think you’re a fucking idiot.

      • DanielHilliard

        but you really are a conservative… you’re just too f*cking stupid to realize it.

      • jackscht

        No, you don’t think little boy, so stop wasting your w*nking time.

        • Dan

          Why don’t you give your glorious socialist leader Guevara a blow job I hear he loved Blacks and by love I mean if he had his way he’d have put them in cages.

  • Truth Teller

    The evil old terrorist man is dead. good:) After researching some real documented history I have come to learn that this idiot killed so may innocence and aligned himself with some nasty characters.

    The mainstream media doesn’t want you to know about. lol

    • jackscht

      and the Jews rule the world in some conspiracy blah blah blah…….

  • DanielHilliard

    This is the first day I’ve ever heard of this ridiculous site… but you regulars here… you are the fringe of f**king civilization. You’re on the fringe of society. You will forever come to this sh*t website and hide anonymously with your idiotic screennames, spewing your stupid opinions and propaganda… and the rest of the educated world will look down on you and your ignorance from further and further above… as you further marginalize yourself through idiocy ….until eventually you die off… and the world will sip champagne. So until we meet in the after life and I kick the shit out of you…. Tchau!

  • Chris Ritchie

    I dated a girl in Capetown, SA in the late 90′s. She said, “You
    Americans are so uninformed. You think he’s a peace leader. We say he
    was a terrorist. He wasn’t in jail for political reasons. He was in
    jail because he killed people!”

    I learned a lot there. I visited his former cell and it was fairly
    mundane. Not shrine-like. But you are right, he was a Marxist and used
    violent methods to achieve his aims. Too bad the press will gloss over
    this.

    • DanielHilliard

      try to oppress an entire race of people and violate their basic human rights…. and you should be expecting more than a few deaths to come your way… shouldn’t you? Chances are your Cape Town girlfriend was a racist bitch pining for the days of segregation and apartheid. not that i’ll reach you because you’re likely exactly the same.

      • TheSpasticAvenger .

        They allowed the black refugees into their country (as we have the Mexicans) eventually the blacks just entered illegally then when there were enough of them the violence started. You know nothing about South Africa, apartheid was a country saving measure which failed. Just wait we in the states will be facing the same thing when there are enough Illegals to overthrow us.

        • DanielHilliard

          you’re a xenophobe, an alarmist and an idiot…. in no particular order. That’s the problem with stupid people like you. It’s always us against them. Illegals (minorities) aren’t going to overthrow me, or us. Maybe minorities will have more votes to be represented at higher levels. But I don’t see that as “whites are being overthrown!!!” It’s called a democracy. You’re just really really stupid.

          • jackscht

            At last someone that hasn’t escaped from a lunatic asylum. I don’t know what possesses me to argue on these sites when really I should just let all of these nasty filthy pigs wallow in their sty.

          • TheSpasticAvenger .

            Phobia is defined as an unreasonable fear put simply, there is nothing unreasonable about the invasion by millions of third worlders. You sir are naive, they want the land and will KILL to get it, you and those that you love might be in the way of their goal. They are taught from earliest childhood that most of America was stolen from them, they call themselves the indigenous people of Aztlan. They will take half of America if we allow them to, SEND THEM HOME. They live in a toilet and will do the same to America. They have displaced black families from neighborhoods that they have settled. I feel very sorry for you in that I believe that you believe in your rhetoric. Whether you believe it or not those illegal invaders are as much a danger to Americans as are islamic terrorists.

          • DanielHilliard

            oh man. you are a gem… of stupidity. you are… THE perfect propaganda target. A heart full of hate and fear, and a brain as blank as a new canvas. I would love to meet your family sir… as well as your cat. I’m intrigued.

          • JSal

            What nationality are you?

          • TheSpasticAvenger .

            I am a Native American, they tried to take this country before and WE stopped them, with bow and arrow and a willingness to die to keep them OUT.

          • JSal

            You didn’t stop the white guys & you had no part of stopping anything.

        • jackscht

          By the sounds of your spastic stupidity I’d be wishing they hurried up and got rid of you. What a moron.

          • seulamane

            You seem very violent jackscht. Do you hurt people?

      • Haddon Mullins

        troll

    • jackscht

      Pity you didn’t date her in the 1980′s as you sound like a perfect couple that would have loved racist segregation. Come to think of it, what a pity you were not living in 1950′s Alabama….or were you?

      • Chris Ritchie

        So let me get this straight. You are calling me a racist for pointing out the fact that Mandela used violence to achieve his aims and that perhaps we shouldn’t lionize him as a hero without also acknowledging his failures? Mandela himself acknowledged them. All the people on this site are saying is that the Western press is completely glossing it over and calling him a hero. He’s not. And we should be careful to remember that noble ends don’t justify violent means, no matter how tempting those goals are.

        • jackscht

          So you are against the war to stop Hitler. You are against the right to self defense. You believe that the U.S.A. should still be a British colony and that poverty stricken British villagers should have paid for the huge cost of defending the American colonies while rich greedy middle aged white men like George Washington should have paid nothing towards their own defense. You agree then that George Washington was a terrorist that had far less right than the indigenous people like Mandela had to fight for their rights from oppressive invaders.

          Well done on being a passive conscientious objector that believes that ‘noble ends don’t justify violent means’ but for the record, your formulating an opinion by what your Cape Town girlfriend in the 90′s believed after her indoctrinated Apartheid era ‘education’ schooling said, I know as I was also there and have the scars to prove it but had the intelligence to fight it…yes, I’m calling you a racist and stupid and clueless. What ‘violence’ did Mandela commit? a lot less than is committed in one week with one of your presidents drone attacks.

          • lulu

            Why so much hate, jackscht? Are you pro-Mandela? Good but seems you don’t precisely imitate the “forgivness and love to all” of your hero

          • Chris Ritchie

            You just fell prey to Godwin’s Law. “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1″

            End of discussion.

      • seulamane

        violence is the truest form of racism.

  • Fred

    The late SA president P.W. Botha told Mandela in 1985 that he could be a
    free man as long as he did just one thing: ‘publicly renounce
    violence’. Mandela refused. That is why Mandela remained in prison until
    the appeaser Pres F.W. de Klerk freed him unconditionally. The bottom
    line is that Nelson Mandela never publicly renounced violence.When
    Mandela was arrested on his Rivonia farm hideout near Johannesburg, the
    following munitions and bomb-making equipment were confiscated with him
    and his courageous comrades.

    •210,000 hand grenades
    •48,000 anti-personnel mines
    •1,500 time devices
    •144 tons of ammonium nitrate
    •21,6 tons of aluminium powder
    •1 ton of black powder

    • jackscht

      Oh is that why he remained in prison? While Botha murdered on mass and with impunity. How unreasonable of Mandela when all he had to do was abandon his people and enter a pact with the devil.

      What a pity they didn’t use those munitions ‘supposedly discovered’ by the Apartheid henchmen of the dictator Verwoerd as an excuse to execute these democrats at the kangaroo trial. I would have, after the slaughter of all those defenseless men and women at the Sharpville massacre.

      All you crypto-fascists can squeal all you like but the fact remains that the A.N.C., was and is a multi racial democratic organisation that fought for the right to self determination for all, won democratic elections and established a free and open society that forgave and left free the mass murderers that your kind of stinking pond life try and defend.

      Shame on you.

    • DesertSun59

      Name one incident of violence he committed after he was released. One.

  • DList

    Truth is a harsh thing. It’s unforgiving and uncompromising. and doesn’t care about your feelings. And you might bury it, but it’s always there,always alive.

  • dave

    rust n peace

  • ladyuk

    Why use terms like “retard” its very odd ? This discussion has gone off the rails very badly. Let’s just stop and be kind to each other. Make a start with your own behavour, stop cracking each others nuts ! It so caveman.

  • nuri ak

    the article is so weak, it should be enhanced. for instance, how many people died with these terrorist actions, how many of them are babies, children and women. and also we would like to see a comparable table on economic issues such as unemployment, economic unbalance between black and white south africans. could be given some examples about a few black elites who became billioner after regime change while the situation was not change for most of the black south africans.

  • jrogersp

    It is to bad that to many do not and therefore will not see the downfalls of those they put on pedestal! Criminals do Criminal Acts and it doesn’t matter if they think they are doing them for the right reasons or not! I applaud Mandela for admitting his errs and tried somewhat to make up for them but that does not negate the fact that he had Thousands killed! God can Forgive him and we should too but he still did the acts and we should not forget that he did them!

  • Unc Remus

    May he Rot in Hell

    • DanielHilliard

      may you die immediately.

      • Unc Remus

        Ignorant Halfwit Dolt, whatsamatter boy, you mad…go blow your boyfriend and get your daily protein dose…

        • hardrock

          Hey, time to get off of your mother & fuck the goat you toothless, knuckle dragging inbred.

  • Guest

    all the good this man has done and yet the media still want a piece of him, those educated understand his trials, his errors. but i also know that few of us are exempt from mistake. my point being that what this man symbolises, wether it be iconic or not, is hope.

  • p t

    Technically- he was imprisoned from 1963 to 1990- so he formally was not responsible for the acts of terror that happened during his stay in prison. It’s almost like blame Rudolf Hess imprisoned in England since 1941, for what Rudolf Hoess and Nazis did in Auschwitz from 1942 until 1944.

  • CJC

    I have a friend from South Africa, who writes:

    “He belonged to a banned terrorist group the ANC and yes they were
    terrorists who put bombs in children’s arcades and family restaurants
    and killed innocent people including children. And no, we have not
    forgotten what they did (much like the IRA in Ireland) but they were
    fighting for their freedom as they put it but there is no doubt they
    were terrorists fighting for a “cause”. Apartheid however, was wrong on
    every level and to be fair I suppose if I was an oppressed black person
    living under Apartheid I would probably be a ring leader in the
    forefront of the struggle. What they did was wrong but so was
    apartheid, Mandela was not the ANC they were made up of a lot of people
    like Oliver Tambo, Chris Hani etc. who all went in to exile and Mandela
    was the scapegoat, he got to go to prison where he probably belonged.
    Moving forward 27 years, the admiration and respect for the man comes
    from the fact that Apartheid was over and it was inevitable that
    something had to be done and releasing Mandela was a very brave move on
    the part of the then SA President FW De Klerk. The way Madiba handled
    the situation with patience, forgiveness and called for a peaceful
    resolution is where the admiration comes in. He quite easily could have
    called for an uprising and the country would have ended in a civil war
    with bloodshed and mayhem. One the white South Africans would probably
    not have won due to the sheer numbers involved.

    As for his wife Winnie, she is a criminal and really does belong in
    prison. She murdered Stompie one of her football club kids along with
    dozens of others I’m sure that we don’t even know about. That woman is
    filled with hatred and is a thief, criminal, murderess and bad to the
    bone. I think after being in prison for so long and coming out and
    realising what she had been doing and had done Madiba realised that
    needed to distance himself from her, hence him divorcing her, because
    she preached hatred and he wanted peace. How can you not respect a man
    that managed to achieve what no man had does before and deliver a
    transformation of a country under Apartheid peacefully. Look at the
    rest of Africa, I rest my case.”

    So what do you say to that?

    • DesertSun59

      Thank you for that. The jackbooted thugs (actually snaggle-toothed alcoholics) who are members of The American Teatard Party have lots of offensive things to say about Mandela. But they’re ignorant of what they had for breakfast, must less what has happened in American or world history. I’ve been waiting for a response from a real South African who was there.

      • Skeenr

        And leftists will readily turn their backs on the truth if it benefits them. Liberals have long been supporters of revisionist history. Thanksgiving is portrayed as a a feast to thank the Native Americans, while it started as a feast to thank God. The Civil War is told as a war between those who wanted slaves and those who wanted freedom, while slavery was a fringe issue almost until the end of the war. More recently, liberals will tell you that greedy banks caused the housing bubble but mention nothing of the CRA which REQUIRED banks to lend in low-income neighborhoods where banks knew the individuals wouldn’t be able to repay loans.

        You wanna talk about ignorance? Let’s start talking.

  • Rachel Zamoria

    the article smacks of white xenophobes still upset over the fact apartheid ended. there was a peaceful means to end apartheid without the “terrorists” actions you condemn but overlook the fact it was the blood of oppressors that was spilled. There were no ‘innocent’.. to remain silent while the boot of the oppressor is against the head of another is your approval not your condemnation therefore you are just as guilty.

    • DanielHilliard

      Hey!!! A smart person who actually has real perspective on life. Nice to hear your opinion.

    • Peter

      Agreed.

  • Robert Richard

    Well as cruel as Apartheid was Massacring innocent blacks who turn themselves and for no papers. Manadela was not a terriorst but a freedom fighter. George Washington and the Continental Army use guerrilla warfare attacks against the British. the UK considered the father of our nation a terrorist well into the civil war. So much so that they helped fund the south during the civil war. So is a cliché says “one terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter and one man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist” in the end he used peace to end Apartheid!

  • Confused

    Mandela’s jailing started in 1962 and ended in 1990.
    The example highlights of his terrorist actions listed here are from 1983 to 1988

    How was he able to do that ???

    • Roy

      He (and his organisation) was very well financed (Gaddafi for one) and anything can be achieved through bribery and corruption.

  • Outlawyer45

    Were Leftists similarly broken up when Idi Amin croaked?
    She was a piker compared to her husband in the killing department, but Winnie Mandela had a penchant for torturing children, so presumably the Leftists will shed sincere tears when she goes. Their choices in idols are at least bizarre.
    Well, as Joe Biden said, he belongs to the cages now.

  • the one

    These commies are always portrayed as saints by the media.

  • Orion Blastar

    He is not the only one to cover up his terrorist past: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2013/12/7/11628/7406

  • melonhead

    Mandela was in jail in the 80s.

  • lily-white

    “Nelson Mandela was the head of UmKhonto we Sizwe, (MK), the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party.”… WOW… It suddenly came to me why our usurper, congress and MSM literally foam at the mouth over this guy!…

  • Onlooker

    Daniel ,race ,colour, religion and everything else aside you must be one of the most nasty vulgar individuals currently polluting this planet . You’re an embarrassment to any viewpoint.

    • DanielHilliard

      whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!! name calling offends me!!!! whaaaaaa!!!! (as you defend people calling Mandela names) you tool.

  • Arabelle Jackson

    And don’t forget the Magoo’s bombing

  • PeterC

    Funny how you all “debate” with DanielHilliard. He’s payed to discredit you all. Ignore him.

    • hardrock

      I can get paid for calling you a dick hole? Where do I sign up to get a job like that? Do I get paid more for making you look like an idiot dick cheese?

  • kjwi

    Are you trying to say that Mandela was responsible for those “highlights” that you have listed (dated from in between 1983-1988) when he was a political prisoner from 1963-1990, and was only allowed to write 1 letter every 6 months and allowed 1 30min visit each year?

    You make some fine points, but you are clutching at straws with that one. At least present a balanced argument.

  • john

    you are a liar and biased.Guessing you expected blacks to live as dogs in their own country.How can you say a liberation war hero is a terrorist and killer.He is the saint you hate.The man who stopped a handful whites from domineering forever.
    i live in south africa,im actually angry he became a bit too soft.Why didnt he actually chase many whites and allies.why didnt he kill the dictators.
    Mark my worst,they shall rise a young mugabe in south africa…his name is Julius Malema..he shall fix the imbalance and bring power back to us black people and all real loyal dedicated non racial south africans.

  • Justhappytobebreathing

    Come on everyone. Clearly Daniel is just amping you all up. His comments actually make me smile because the more he is in hisher safe haven the less he is mixing in society out in the real world. Keep it up Daniel and stay in your bedroom. I look forward to your next colourful reply. Don’t hold back as it does not influence my emotional state at all. Yawn.

  • Permutations

    Wasn’t Mandela in prison when those atrocities were committed?

  • Terry

    Mandela was a terrorist and should have been executed as such

  • Zulu

    Daniel you do make me laugh. It is obvious you have not been educated. White people moved into South Africa 600 years ago. They have a right to be there. They also did not have slavery as they did in America. In fact until the 1940′s there was no apartheid. And the country was an English colony until the 1940′s. There are many white South Africans that were also arrested for being anti apartheid. This is what happens when you go against any government in the country you live in. I am also a 40 year old white South African and I could only vote when I was 18 years old. I voted IFP not ANC. Do you know who the IFP are? I am white but I am a Zulu. I am sure this will confuse you but it would not confuse a South African. My family and I did not support apartheid or the ANC. As most South Africans, we wanted racism to end but we did not want Mandela as ruler for many reasons. I hid Zulu woman and children in my home because leading up to the elections, the ANC were murdering any black person who would not vote for them. During apartheid, the South African government allowed the Zulus their own land. They had a King and they were very patriotic. Mandela took this away from them. I am also not a rich white South African. In fact there are many of us. My children are also of mixed race. Do you understand this? When you want to generalise White South Africans keep this in mind. My children do not want people like you talking for the coloured races. You are an embarrassment. I am also not ignorant. If you look up racism it does not only have to do with the colour of your skin. So Daniel my mixed race South African family would like to point out that you are a racist my friend. Go crawl back into that hole you came from. Maybe you can pick up a book and educate yourself.

    • DanielHilliard

      you actually are NOT educated, and you ARE ignorant. and half of your post, the part where you were trying to be informative… you just repeated what I’ve been saying the whole time. Learn how to read dick. And actually… there was a South-asian woman on here who lived through South African apartheid, and she was thanking me for my posts, because I’m one of the few people on here who were showing compassion for what she had been through during apartheid… and she certainly did not see me as a racist. so her post carries 100,000,000,000 times more importance than the ramblings of an idiot like yourself.

      • lucasb

        Based on your response, you just lost the argument.Intellect wins out over vulgarity, every time.

        • DanielHilliard

          allow me to fix this for your friend. what you meant to say was “Intellect often mocks and dismisses stupidity and bigotry using vulgarity.” What stupidity does do though is see vulgarity and assume that an argument has been lost simply because of the presence of profanity. You need to smarten up my friend.

  • Robert Platt Bell

    An interesting article. Sadly, the world likes to divide people into “good” and “bad” categories, with no shades of grey in-between.

    OK, Stalin and Hitler were bad.

    But very few others are 100% Good.

    In America, many young people like to follow the Dali Lama – imbuing him with this saintliness that is undeserved.

    The reality of the Dali Lama is that he and his brother were both on the CIA payroll. He is fabulously wealthy, with homes all over the globe. He is homophobic and NOT a vegetarian, by the way. And if put in charge of Tibet, would rule it like the Taliban. The Dali Lamas were the Shahs of Tibet, not saintly monks.

    But that doesn’t sell bumper stickers.

    Mother Teresa – surely SHE is 100% pure as the driven snow, right?

    Well, some criticize her. While she has done a lot to help the poor and people dying on the streets in India, her work doesn’t extent to PREVENTION of the underlying causes of this poverty and death. Things like birth control and social justice are not on her radar screen. So, if you are dying in the streets, she will make you a nice bed, but won’t do much to prevent your 10 children from suffering a similar fate.

    Nelson Mandela is in a similar vein. There is a lot of gooey happy-talk going on in the States right now. But in the back of my mind, I keep thinking, “Gee, wasn’t he imprisoned for KILLING people?”

    And indeed, he was deemed a terrorist (and the ANC a terrorist organization) until fairly recently.

    As the author of the above article points out, once in power, Mandela and the ANC did not really do much different than their white supremacist predecessors. South Africa is still a country troubled with poverty and violence.

    I guess if Mandela has any chance at sainthood it is in that he changed later in life, and renounced violence.

    I guess that’s something.

  • Lindsay Ashe Whitley

    When did Nelson Mandela ever plead guilty? His plea at Rivonia was not guilty. That’s why there was a trial.

    • Lindsay Ashe Whitley

      “guilty to 156 acts of public violence” – Did you confuse this figure with
      the 156 people (of all races) who were acquitted in the 1956 “Treason” trial, Mr. Jenkins, or did you simply extract this number from your arse?

    • Lindsay Ashe Whitley

      And did Mandela help found the MK in 1961? Yes
      Did Mandela (who was imprisoned from 1964 to 1990) have anything to do with the late 80′s bombings? No

      As a “Deputy Political Editor” Mr. Jenkins, perhaps you need an editor editing YOU.

  • Bob Proctor

    I made really bad French toast once..

  • donewaldo

    Isn’t this lacking a bit of respect here? Why must you spit on his grave? If you go to a funeral, you say good things about a person. If it’s your funeral, do you want people who attend and give a final speech say: “Ey, it was a good person, but please look and see these wrongdoings that I made a research about for this occasion.”?

    And concerning racism vs whites in Africa, I invite you to read my blog http://istillgotoschool.wordpress.com.
    All counter racism we (whites) face is because we haven’t found the humility to apologize for the atrocities our ancestors committed. Those are repercussions which are not our personal fault, but somebody we share traits with. They have passed away since, so how can we expect them to apologize?

    • DesertRatPunkMetaller

      None of my ancestors owned any slaves so I ain’t apologizing for shit. Take that white guilt and stick it where the sun don’t shine.

      • ajsdaddie

        Yes, exactly why would a third generation American of Eastern European extraction have to apologize for anything? In fact, anybody harboring resentment towards me because of slavery is, well, an idiot. Truth is, race-baiting is nothing but a dollars game and I won’t play it. AJ doesn’t owe anybody anything, and I’ll keep telling him that.

        • jonath

          If my grandparents build a home many years ago, i receive it, and i invite my girlfriend to live in it, she will still have to adapt to the home build before i could ever decide how it should be build, maybe im not responsible for the way it was build, but i sure am able to understand the difficulty of living in it for her. So or we build a new home, or we change the old home. But i will not neglect her wishes.

          • ajsdaddie

            This is the most tortuous, twisted analogy I’ve ever read.

          • jonath

            yes, because it is true, we claim to be caring people, so lets care about our other “parts”…well, those other parts can not feel at home in the home our parents build, maybe its time to listen to them and help them to feel at home. As much “those other parts” need to help us. Its true the anology is not the best one, but the logic behind is true. We have a responsibility, maybe not guilt, but sure responsibility. The other solution would be returning to ignorance which needs a self justification by blaming the other to be guilty or to apartheid, and we all know it something to be evil. Or is a not mercifull existance not evil ?

      • DanielHilliard

        you should apologize for being a fucking retard. you should apologize to me. i am white… and many people hear your words, then look at me, and assume that i am as FUCK stupid as you. you owe me an apology you ignorant piece of shit.

        • DesertRatPunkMetaller

          Take your white guilt and eat shit.

          • Jane

            What about the present day saudi slave and world sex trade?? Why arent we revealing the world’s real racists!

      • Jane

        Nor mine. Both sides of mine (in canada) were slaves at some point to the nelgihs. The Irish and the acadians!

        • Jane

          The acadians were mostly drowned and sent off in boats to america from eastern canada.

    • randir14

      Do us all a favor and kill yourself to repent of your forefathers’ sins, you white guilt-ridden piece of shit.

      • DanielHilliard

        you should feel guilty for being a fucking retard.

      • surj

        randir14. Do you really want to know who were and are slave divers? type ” john alembillah azumah ” in search box of YouTube and listen to him

    • Jane

      What about the white slave trade 640 – 1980.

      • Jane

        The first black slave in america was sold by a black man in africa. The man who ended slavery in America in 1865 was a white christian man from England. The same time there were black slaves, there were white slaves from scotland, and Ireland under the British.

        • JSal

          “The man who ended slavery in America in 1865 was a white christian man from England.” What?

          & what did the Irish & Scottish people do?

  • Broadus-Muskauski Deborah

    While I don’t agree with immortalizing ANY man/woman/child/animal…etc, it seems VERY hypocritical to me, that heroes like Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Daniel Boone, General Cluster, are allowed to exist without this kind of vitriol. But a man/woman/child/animal on any other race (especially Black) has to have to battle for those same “honors.” They even did it to Martin Luther King (making sure we knew he was an adulterer), but they will defend to the death, Jefferson’s relationship with his slave (Sally Hemmings) as a “love” affair.

    • DanielHilliard

      of course you are correct. people don’t want to hear that about themselves though. they don’t want to accept that they’re hypocrites. they don’t want to accept that they choose to be ignorant. they don’t want to accept that they’ve been manipulated into fools. so they just get really really angry and frustrated. All of my posts in here have been made in good fun with a smile on my face. George W. Bush – terrorist. American revolutionaries – terrorists.

    • DanielHilliard

      White South Africans who set up and perpetuated apartheid…. terrorists

    • GA

      I keep seeing this same thing copied/pasted by liberals all over today. Yet another copy/paste liberal who doesn’t know what they stand for until someone tells them what to believe.

  • Cecilia

    In 1964 Nelson Mandela, who had
    formed Umkhonto we Siswe, the military arm of the ANC, was imprisoned for 156
    acts of violence, to which he pleaded guilty.

    In 1964 Martin Luther King Jr. received the Nobel
    Peace prize for combating racial inequality through nonviolence.

  • Mong Morg

    sounds like he read a lot of Fanon

  • SouthAfrican4Freedom

    I am an South African, and you know what! I wouldnt care if he killed some one, he turned his life around and forgave the people and the people forgave him. If he never entered the role as president in this country why it would be like Zimbabwe or Ethiopia even worse Iraq. He settled the hate between the races, between the different skin colours. So if your child killed someone, blew up a building, or even stole R5, and he repented and changed his life over for the good, what may I ask would you say? So I’m sorry if you dont know what you talking about go to hell. If Nelson Mandela didn’t change the hearts of the leaders and people of this country we would all possibly be dead or live in HELL. You all are quick to say but look at his past look what he “has” done, no one says but look at what he is doing. Stop harping at the past, the man changed his life around and a country near Civil War, so how dare you say this. No one says anything about the Calambine shootings, some stupid kids killing everyone in a school some satanic nuts. So please give it a rest, the country is going to hell now with our retarded president Zuma who steals our tax money to upgrade his house and build new homes for his families. May you should focus your attention on this Idiot that is still alive????

  • Bill Lawrence

    Wasn’t Mandela in jail with only a single visit and letter per year during the time of the bombings listed?

  • allessior

    Mandela, started his career by blowing up innocent babies, toddlers, blown to bits for a cause. Red Herring believes that’s ok, as long as in the end you become a great healer, a great diplomat. Like Al Sharpton, who ruined the career of Steven Pagonis, who ruined the careers of the Duke LaCrosse players, or like Bill Clinton, who was accused of rape by several women, who sexually abused a young intern, like all of the liberal heroes of the world who at one time committed horrific acts but are now considered God like. Yes, Nelson Mandela, baby killer, friend of dictators and terrorists, he is one solid hero, a great man, someone who did horrific things but who now is considered akin to the second coming. RUBBISH.

    • DanielHilliard

      hahhaaaaaa. you’re a certified nut job. and no one will ever have a good word to say about you.

      • allessior

        Yeah, very good counter argument. I am amazed by your intellect. NOT!

    • Jane

      Evil

  • phantom235

    Neeegro terrorist murderer

    • DanielHilliard

      at least you were honest with your racism. 99% of people in here are racists, they’re just too cowardly to admit it, but not smart enough to hide it.

      • GA

        Mandela was a racist. He not only hated white people, but plotted to kill as many innocent white civilians as he could, including white women and children.

        • jonath

          if your people would suffer in that way, i hope you wouldnt be a coward not to defend them,although his way was not good towards innocents in that place and time it is understandable. the nice thing about mandela is that he did change, while having enough reasons to hold on to hate. He was far from perfect,but he filled a memory in history that gives warmth to so many people, what he symbolises is more then what he did as a person, it is not connected anymore to only his person, but is the image of many peoples hopes and dreams. Mandela himself knew he was not a saint. People worship in him the hope that will save us from the confinements of our being, if we hold on to it.

          • GA

            Typical liberal “ends justifies the means” rhetoric.

            You are saying that if a black gang leader in S. Central LA got his gang to rise up and start bombing police stations and buses full of white people, that he should then be praised as a hero for his “efforts towards ending racism”.

            This is exactly what Mandela was in prison for.

          • jonath

            i dont think one can free mandela from his sins, as we all will never be free from our sins, but we can give it reason, and mandela fullfills a certain reason bigger then himself. It is also not the same as a black gang leader in LA, the conditions in SA were very different, it was the whole of a people that was officialy put down and innocents were abused and even killed because of it. Wouldnt you stand up for your kids, and wouldnt you share in loosing control the day you cant take it anymore ?

          • GA

            He is exactly the same as any other terrorist. Bin Laden bombed the USA killing thousands for the same reason mandela murdered thousands – Because he felt he ends justified the means.

            Mandela was a terrorist who murdered innocent people. This is a fact. It cannot be changed. Period.

          • jonath

            bin laden killed because of a wrong interpretation of the quran and a wrong interpretation of good and evil while fullfilling his quest for reason, bin laden killed to destroy, while mandela killed to free. or am i wrong in this? mandela is not pure evil, what he did avoided the loss of many lives, he could have talked hate after his release, he avoided many deaths.

          • James Lovelace

            “bin laden killed because of a wrong interpretation of the quran ”

            Wow. You are seriously ignorant about the life of Mohammed. Here is just one page (from the most authoritative muslim biography ever written about Mohammed). http://www.scribd.com/doc/27156626/The-Earliest-Biography-of-Muhammad-By-Ibn-Ishaq#outer_page_89 In this one page Mohammed is murdering 700 men and boys (any boy with pubic hair was beheaded). The founder of islam then sells off the women and other children as slaves. He takes the wife of one of those he killed, and adds her to his harem, where she would be his sex slave to be raped.

            Seriously. Just don’t comment on islam until you’ve at least read some books. Even books by muslims will show you that Bin Laden was an amateur killer compared to Mohammed.

          • jonath

            Islam is much more then the dogmatic stories you make of it. But the culture it allows is pure interpretation. And Mohammed lived in another time and his deeds have a certain angel/perspective that needs to be seen with it. Just as many bible prophets were not full grown in mercy and pleaded fast with god to kill the enemy, still for many they are half saints.

          • James Lovelace

            “Islam is much more then the dogmatic stories you make of it.”
            Almost the last words to come out of the mouth of the founder of “the religion of peace” were “kill the unbelievers”.

            We’ve been fed the lie for almost a century that islam is the religion of peace. After a century of revealing that muslims worship a genocidal murderer, perhaps we will be in a position to form a balanced judgement.

          • jonath

            religion is never of peace, but what it brings you in wrong judgement, you can change in good judgement, religion is the tool we are given by god to bless or curse his creation.
            anyway we were talking about mandela, and why comets are put in our heavens, to shine and break down to set times and allow people to see all sides while it makes it anticipated turn around the day and nights of our lives.

          • James Lovelace

            “religion is never of peace, but what it brings you in wrong judgement, you can change in good judgement, religion is the tool we are given by god to bless or curse his creation.”

            blah blah blah. You need medicating.

          • jonath

            yeah maybe, but not to remove hate in my heart, because it doesnt live there.

          • surj

            jonath. How much have you ever read about Islam or muslim history? You say bin laden killed because of a wrong interpretation of the quran . Have you read Quran? From Quran Sura 9:111″ Allah has purchased from the faithful their lives and worldly goods and in return has promised them paradise. They will fight for the cause of Allah ,they will Kill and be Killed ” And muslims have been doing that from the times of mo-ham-mad to this day. Killing each other and Infidels. Are you a new convert to Islam by any chance? Just curious . Now see http://www.faithfreedom.org and http://www.islam-watch.org I pity ignorant people like you.

          • jonath

            thats methaphorical, everyting in religion is methaphorical…just as history is methaphorical, a mirror of creation in reason explained through the mirros of creation for a reason that actually allows wrong interpretation as part of the three of logic that is being build in gods mind…this is actually what jesus came to teach us, until his words were once again interpretated wrong.

          • JSal

            He doesn’t want to understand or can’t understand what you are saying. His ego won’t let him. He seems to have forgotten the Crusades. Religion is not God it is the worship of a God & written by men.

      • sanity_in_florida

        You are a racist,nitwit.

      • surj

        DanielHilliard ‘ You don’t know what racism is until you go live in muslim countries . Just see http://www.compassddirect.org and http://www.thereligionofpeace.com to some mandela will be a freedom fight and to some he will be a terrorist . Have you ever been to South Africa,? Try to walk in Johannesburg and see what happens to you.

        • DanielHilliard

          I have been to South Africa. I’ve been all over South Africa, from Cape Town to Durban to Johannesburg to Rustenburg to Nelspruit. The nicest people I met there were the South African blacks, from the cab drivers to random people I met on the trains to the workers and police officers. And while I met many South African whites who were also very nice to me and my girlfriend, they were clearly racists and would make racist comments, thinking that it was something that we would all obviously agree on. It seemed that if there was one group that wasn’t willing to try living in harmony with the other, it was the whites. I’ve walked all through Johannesburg and nothing happened to me.

  • Locutus ofBorg

    once a wanker…

    always a wanker

    pog mo thoin, Lee
    you are definitely _not_worthy_

  • William

    So it seems, the fight goes on. Was Mandella a terrorist or a freedom fighter. Who decides? Same as BinLaden, for some a freedom fighter and others a terrorist??????????????????

    • http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com KMDay

      Bingo!

      • jonath

        So we didnt had to fight hitler or napoleon or …? noboy decides, it just is, history makes people guilty because of obligation, and it is our duty to learn from it so it cant be repeated,and we dont avoid this by planting new hate, but by understanding. Bin laden wanted to bring judgement, it is still something very different.

    • surj

      William. Do you want to know ” Was mandela a terrorist or a freedom fighter, Who decides ”? We the people , by observing his actions. see/read websites I have given above.

  • mark_ducharme

    my buddy at work told me the US declared him a terrorist until 2008. now he’s a hero. hmm

  • Nelson Bombdella

    Hi I think whites and blacks should live separately forever….that is all

    • GA

      That is what Obama wants too. Obama is a passionate follower of “Black Liberation Theology”, which has an ultimate goal of a separate black nation. This is why he quit Trinity church when running for office – to hide his association.

      • DanielHilliard

        hahhaaaaaa. a small brain and a fearful, hateful heart…. the recipe for a right winger.

      • JSal

        Me scared. Me stupid, too. Me regurgitate what they tell me to say. Me have no idea what Black Liberation Theology mean. But me scared.

    • Jane

      I am a white canadian and I agree!

      • Jane

        But in canada we have many cultures and they all live seggregated with their own race when we are all suppose to be living together. So it proves no race wants to mingle and live with other races, and you get little india, chinatown, irishtown, etc. Then the side effect is the downtown has turned to gangland of 150 ethnic gangs in toronto.

  • http://HoaxAndChange.com/ John Hames

    Mandela was a murder. Ever wonder what it would be like to take a car tire, fill it full of gasoline, then push it down over a Christian’s head and chest,,, then light it on fire? Mandela can tell you what that is like to do that to someone. They called it Necklacing, Winnie, his wife was particularly fond of it. Check it out, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necklacing My guess is Mr. Mandela is in a particularly warm place at the moment.

    We fly our flags at half staff for a Marxist loving terrorist, but not flown at half staff for Margaret Thatcher, a leader that helped bring down Communism and was one of our greatest allies.

    • DanielHilliard

      you’re an idiot. Mandela was 1000 times the man you’ll ever be.

    • megapode

      John, you said (and I quote) “Ever wonder what it would be like to take a car tire, fill it full of gasoline, then push it down over a Christian’s head and chest,,, then light it on fire? Mandela can tell you what that is like to do that to someone”
      Really? Can you point us towards one documented instance where Nelson Mandela did that, or ordered it done? Even better, since you introduced the religious angle to it, can you demonstrate that this was done BECAUSE the person on the receiving end was a Christian?

      You’ve made the assertion? Can you back it? If not then will you retract? It would, surely, be the decent thing to do.

      • megapode

        Ok. So you can’t substantiate the assertion. No surprises there.

  • GA

    Mandela is only a hero to those who have allowed themselves to be brainwashed by the liberal media, without researching truth for themselves.

    • jonath

      he is a hero not because of the man he was, but because of avoiding a country to go in a revenge modus….the man was created by the circumstances but the circumstances allowed him to show people the power of forgiveness….it is not who he was, but what he remembered us that is the holy thing.

    • megapode

      Bah! As has already been demonstrated, the author of this article doesn’t have many facts on his side and clearly hasn’t researched the truth. Don’t make the same mistake and don’t just look to prop up judgements you have already arrived on the basis of little or no information.

  • GA

    Why do left-wingers pretend to be so uppity about racism when they are the biggest racists in the history of the world?

    • jonath

      never ending circles with the left right talk, it doesnt exist, the truth has both sides giving valid arguments. But even if a pedal goes up and down, the goal is always straight forward…and the goal can not be ignored because of the cause of self protection. Because in the long run, mercy is that what saves all of us.

    • DanielHilliard

      hahaaaaa. good one. i guess just because you say it, it makes it true. You know that you dislike black people… that’s why you’re getting so angry about liberals condemning racism. lol. and then you lash out, because you’re stupid, and you just decide to say “leftists are the biggest racists in the history of the world!!!” with nothing to support it. You’re a gem.

  • sanity_in_florida

    Why do libs cherish murderers like Mandela, Che, Chavez, Castro,…?

    • GA

      Because liberalism IS communism. They protect their own.

      • jonath

        the big evil of all times is security over doubt. Black white thinking. Both left and right are guilty of that. Because doubt has the seed of mercy, and doubt is the growthfactor of wisdom, and together they protect and free, and change our world.

      • Jane

        Liberals will end in canada very soon!

    • James Lovelace

      “Why do libs cherish murderers like Mandela, Che, Chavez, Castro,…?”

      Because they have no objection to violence, provided the people they despise are being murdered. If Anders Breivik had murdered right-wing teenagers at a far-right training camp, the Left would have t-shirts with his face on them, just like they have with Che Guevara. And just like Rolling Stone is trying to make a pinup of the muslim bomber of the Boston marathon.

      I was a socialist for 25 years. I saw the light a few years ago, and now I despise them.

      • DanielHilliard

        you didn’t see the light. you just went senile and got really easily duped into being a moron.

    • JSal

      Ronald Reagan’s administration sold chemical weapons to Iraq.

  • AAA

    The dates of the bombings, he was incacerated

  • Godwin Radloff

    This is more in line with the reality of SA … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENScQZH6qC4&feature=youtu.be

  • Jon

    Nelson Mandela can lick my balls

  • Nic Adams

    Dear Daniel
    Only people who are not confident with their knowledge use foul language and names in their attempts at debate and argument.
    Shame dear Daniel – one day you might grow up and smell the roses whereupon you may be able to join the true debaters in life.
    Until then, maybe you need to have a good look at yourself in the mirror and rethink about your clear lack of understanding of the real happenings in South Africa!!

    • DanielHilliard

      lol. that’s not true at all. i just call it as i see it. you’re in denial because you know you wish for a society of separation where whites are privileged over blacks. That’s the society you want to live in. You’re a fool, and you’re obvious.

  • Patrick Mckenna

    Lee Jenkins: extraordinary! I stopped reading your lies first time round when I saw that that you ascribed a bombing at joburg railway station to nelson mandela and MK. as your close reading of SA history will have told you, joburg station was bombed one during the struggle against apartheid. it was bombed by Frederick John Harris, a white member of the African resistance Movement. look me in the eye and answer a question, keyboard warrior. had you been born black in SA during the early 20th century, would you have joined an armed struggle. Answer ‘No’ to my question and you are either a liar or a coward. In your case, possibly both.

  • lsksmash

    What I like about Mandela is he admitted his crime… This is unlike the white people continually absolving their kind of any wrong, because clear they were fair and better than all other races. 7000 is not the number of people that died during apartheid, it is the censored version told to South Africa and the rest of the world to avoid a political uprising by the black man on his white brothers.

    • James Lovelace

      On that basis, I guess you admire Anders Breivik too.

      • jonath

        james, you are a bit in denial :) apartheid is not an invention of some crazy people wanting to be angry on some white folks, that anger for justice some people have can sometimes turn them into people blind towards a balanced view.

        • James Lovelace

          Apartheid was invented by islam. And it is practiced in muslim-dominated countries to this very day. http://www.chakranews.com/sri-lankan-at-risk-of-being-beheaded-for-praying-to-buddha/3035 But such things are only publicised as immoral when they are done by white people/christians.

          • jonath

            fatalistic behaviour…if my friend does something wrong i can do something wrong. Your generalisations are theoretical perspectives that does not take in account human suffering which is an inidivual thing, not a statistic given.

          • Jane

            Yes moslems are the most racist people on earth. They kill anyone who is not one of them such as the attack in kenya in that mall. They bring their hate to white nations. Everyone knows the truth- people arent stupid.

          • Jane

            There is an american-iranian pastor in Iran on death row because he is christian and hes being tortured.

    • allessior

      Yes, and Timothy Mcveigh admitted his terrorist crime as well, except instead of imprisoning him for life, they gave him the death penalty. Perhaps if they gave him a life sentence with the possibility of parole he may have been able to firm an organization for peace, perhaps named “The Congress of Racial Justice”, but alas, the authorities did not give him the same luxury that Mandela was afforded after he bombed and killed thousands of innocent babies and toddlers, not to mention innocent women and men. You see, those who imprisoned Mandela saw greatness in this man, so, the authorities became more and more inclined over the years to firgive him for those heinous acts. The families of those who were killed and maimed were thrown to the side like so much garbage, having to watch the murderer of their children be released because Mandela was a supreme entity, a superior being, who was sorry for the killings, and that wax enough for the uthorities.

      RUBBISH!

      • Jane

        He was on a nutty depression pill and there are others who did the same thing on those pills. They make people hallucinate.

  • Dennis Carr

    Well, if Zero O’Boob can win the Nobel Peace Prize for nothing anything is possible.. But to be the maker of murder, how can you decide to hand out “Peace Prizes” to anyone as ‘contemptible’ as him, who has stirred the Racist pot to near boiling..

    “Jagland said “We have not given the prize for what may happen in the future. We are awarding Obama for what he has done in the past year.”

    Well, I can say that Nobel invented Dynamite and the Sweden may have caused this to blow up in their leftist face.. “Alfred Bernhard Nobel 21 October 1833 – 10 December 1896) was a Swedish chemist, engineer, innovator, and armaments manufacturer. He was the inventor of dynamite. Nobel also owned Bofors, which he had redirected from its previous role as primarily an iron and steel producer to a major manufacturer of cannon and other armaments. Nobel held 350 different patents, dynamite being the most famous. He used his fortune posthumously to institute the Nobel Prizes.”

    PEACE AT ANY COST????

    “In 1986, a $285 million contract between the Government of India and Swedish arms company Bofors was signed for supply of 410 155mm Howitzer field guns. In 1987, Swedish Radio alleged that Bofors paid illegal commissions to top Indian politicians and key defence officials to seal the deal. The scandal contributed to the defeat of Rajiv Gandhi in elections three years later.

    In 1999 Saab AB purchased the Celsius Group, then the parent company for Bofors. In September 2000 United Defense Industries (UDI) of the United States acquired Bofors Weapons Systems (the heavy weapons division), while Saab retained the missile interests.”

  • ricknelsonmn

    Mr. Jenkins,
    Right, so where did you link to Mandela’s self criticism. With all this fluff, I’ve got to take to the boring research, tedious in the extreme, but I am first of all mindful of integrity. What’s the idea? He’s a terrorist in your opinion? Or a nationalist hero, who humbly understands the error of his ways? You don’t state which is your view.
    We’ll could be, you didn’t look into all the history? Is that it? Does Mandela’s stand have merit? Not that anyone with good conscience will condone his alleged bombings.
    Give facts, links and merit where it exists. Let the few who refrain from bashing, the chance to take a load off and let someone who has the time, where you give just a bit more, and link to some fantastic reality!

  • Rusty Dancer

    Human hypocrisy knows no bounds…

  • allessior

    Ladies and gentleman, as you can see, Red Garbage makes very concise, cogent arguments to support his positions.  For example, his primary thesis is that the American Revolution was akin to Apartheid, and that revolutionaries were in fact not intent on killing the adult enemy (the British soldiers) but rather, the American revolutionary guerillas went about planting bombs where they knew children would be, to kill children and women as a scare tactic, a terrorist attack if you will.  You can see support for this brilliant thesis by the extremely well written phrase, “allessior!  allessior!  allessior!  allessior!”. You see, even though most novice political junkies would not be able to understand it, Red Carnage uses a very rare technique, where the “rhythm” of the phrase acts as a code for the actual thesis.  Luckily, having studied the behavior of the Neanderthal, I am one of the few that can infer the argument that Red Riding Carnage is making, namely, that the revolutionary guerillas used the killing of women and children as a terror tactic to get their way with the Crown, just like Nelson Mandela did.  Fortunately, that was not the case, but rather, the Americans were intent on taking as many British soldiers and political representatives as they could, never ever using the citizenry, in a purposeful manner, as guinea pigs to make a point.  

    However, you cannot argue with the sheer genius of Red Robbin’s arguments, since “allessior!” used in repeated rhythmic ways conveys several meanings that only people of such ungenius can make.  

    And Red Ranger also helps us understand the kind of critical thinking necessary to participate in such debates.  Many readers might conclude that using a person’s name in repetitive fashion indicates a lack of intelligence, a lack of cogency, an inability to develop a thesis and properly support the thesis with factual data.  But alas, Red Robin Hood has the last laugh because his use of repetitive, Neanderthal  patterns accomplishes the same thing, but only for those capable of understanding what seem to be nonsensical patterns of dribble, but are in reality some form of conveyance that very few can understand.

  • olesker

    The article makes some good points, but falls short on the single most important issue, terrorism. The major examples you cite are all from the period when Mendela was impassioned and unable to exercise control over violence. At his trial he admitted sabotage (violence against property which lead to unintended — but foreseeable — deaths) and threatened guerrilla warfare which would have been even bloodier. But by the time he was imprisoned that was about as far as it had gone. Umkhonto we Sizwe (contrary to Mandela’s wishes) became dominated by the Communist Party and moved into unquestioned acts of terrorism.

    On the subject of his relations with dictators; all true, but not much different from the leaders of most western democracies (unfortunately). Ditto, military spending.

    What you did get right is that he never claimed to be perfect (and lived up to his claims!).

    • James Lovelace

      But unlike every other political leader on the planet, Mandela is treated like he is a saint (as we have seen with the sickening eulogies of the last few days). Not one of the many reports I heard mentioned that he was classed as a terrorist until 2008.

      Not one report has mentioned his wife and her support for summary execution of those regarded as traitors. If Margaret Thatcher’s husband had been convicted of the things Winnie Mandela had been convicted of, then all of that would have come out again around the time of Thatcher’s funeral.

      What we are seeing is once more the double standards for black people. They are held to far lower standards of morality than white people.

  • Christopher Calliope

    To be honest I don’t know that much about mandela’s darker past, but you’re correct, it should not be ignored or excused. I think once the mourning period has passed, history will start painting a fuller picture of the guy. My off-the-cuff take is he was born into a violently oppressive regime, Apartheid, and far more often than not, natural passionate leaders like Mandela embrace Marxism because it somewhat explains what oppression is, quite accurately I think, but it’s “solutions” are often as bad as the oppression it seeks to overthrow. Revolutionary Marxists are unapologetic about the violent aspects of their program. Marxism is compelling, if not intoxicating, to someone in his situation.

    Mandela’s Marxism didn’t win him many friends in the U.S. as the cold war was still going on, and so the U.S. government, while anti-apartheid in principle, was more worried about which way Mandela would swing if the ANC prevailed.

    In the end, I guess you could look at it as the tragedy of Apartheid — social conditions like that produce violent reaction; had we not been a true democracy w/an explicit bill of rights, our own civil rights movement would have been more of a violent revolution. In his shoes, in that time and place, could you or I have done better than Mandela? Perhaps Mandela will serve as both example and warning to future leaders seeking freedom in similar circumstances.

    Postscript: Ayn Rand wrote about the utter hopelessness of South Africa at that time: tragic and — inevitable:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=-2D6VqMXfFIC&pg=PT94&lpg=PT94&dq=ayn+rand+Apartheid&source=bl&ots=D82DO9rC6q&sig=PnVs3GbvmqiNLKPNvYw2S2u4vyY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=OqWkUrH8N_XIsAT2q4KQAg&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=ayn%20rand%20Apartheid&f=false

  • gzus saves

    interesting since all of these bombing highlights occur well within his period of incarceration where he was only allowed one visitor a year and a letter ever six months…

  • Thato Mafanti

    I am a 23 year old South African lady who lives in Johannesburg. I was too young to notice the Regime when I was growing up so I have no idea how it was. I work for a software house and no one pays attention to what race anyone belongs to. I have friends from all races and honestly no one gives a crap what the color of your skin is. My life is as normal as can be. There might be a majority of ignorant black people, but you will be shocked to find that there are quite a lot of black people with a good head on them, I mention this because some comments imply that the white people are going to leave SA and it is going to go down the drain. I don’t agree. Myself and most of my generation do not share the same opinions all the white people that claimed to have moved to Australia or USA or the UK to flee the current SA.

    Mandela might have founded an organisation that killed white people, I however just want to remind everyone that accuse him of being nothing else but a “murderer”, that he would have not have been part of the MK had the white government not used armed force against the people he was fighting for.

    Everyone on here seems make it seem like he just walked out of is house and went “Oh, I hate whites and I am going to go on and bomb them”
    A general reaction that a group of people who get arrested and tortured or killed on a daily basis would be to defend themselves. Whether Mandela said yes or no in prison wouldn’t have stopped the people that were still out in the streets being butchered.

    I would also to point out a few things to the people that say that South Africa was better off with the Apartheid regime. The Regime was a stupid and retarded idea. Black people were 70% of the population when the regime was started. What economical sense does it make to impoverish the majority of a country? Also, President Botha was planning to poison black women so they became infertile, thus stopping black population growth. This is the maddest load of crap I’ve ever heard! And this is just little percentage of what Apartheid was about. How the well was is Mandela a terrorist when defending his people?

    Please note that in 1983, President Botha offered to release Mandela from prison if he promised to stop violence. Mandela responded that the presence of Apartheid meant violence, and that in a democracy, there will be no need for violence. He spent another 7 years in prison because of that response.

    Mandela was not a violent man. He was ruled by a violent government.

    • jonath

      nice said. :)

    • allessior

      Except his group used bombs that killed the innocent. It is one thing to fight against a tyrannical government, but yet another to purposefully kill the innocent:

      http://afrikaner-genocide-achives.blogspot.com/2013/06/nelson-mandela-bombs-amanzimtoti-23-dec.html

      • Guest

        .

      • Thato Mafanti

        MK was the armed wing of the ANC, co-founded by Nelson Mandela in the wake of the SHARPVILLLE MASSACRE. Its founding represented the conviction in the face of the massacre that the ANC could no longer limit itself to non-violent protest; its mission was to fight against the South African government. After warning the South African government in June 1961 of its intent to begin retaliatory acts if the government did not take steps toward constitutional reform and return of the freedoms denied under apartheid, MK launched its first guerrilla attacks against government installations on 16 December 1961. It was subsequently classified as a terrorist organisation by the South African government and the United States, and banned.

        I hear no mention of the innocent young people that were murdered just before this group was formed. It was a reaction to terrorism. Also, we have no proof of whether he gave the bombings a go ahead or not.

        How many people will actually stand back and watch their families being slaughtered without reacting? What if they did so and the minority rule wiped out the race?
        We wouldn’t be having this conversation now.

        Mandela is not a hypocrite, he admitted all this, he helped form this group because he realised that the non-violent approach they had wasn’t going to work with the government he was fighting.

        I’m sorry, but that does not make him a terrorist. He had reason to do everything he did.

    • DanielHilliard

      great comment. These people who are saying that SA is going down the drain are simply white people who are not comfortable seeing SA blacks as equals. They believe that they are privileged because they are white. They are an embarrassment to humanity.

    • Jane

      Just keep your hatred of whites out of the other white nations like canada. We have alot of your people here and they are the most racist of all cultures in canada that I have ever encountered and canada is very multicultural! Africans dont even like canadian blacks!!

      • Jane

        Even my native friend cant stand the african women.

      • King Lion

        You are so full of shit…give it a rest you psycho! WTF do you know about Africa or Africans? Just stfu and you won’t come across as the narcissistic white-bred chicken-shit bigoted bitch that you so clearly are!

  • chris g

    ALL OF YOU ARE PAMPERING A TROLL. THAT DANIEL CREATURE IS AN IDIOTIC CHILD, THAT DID NOT GET ENOUGH LOVE FROM HIS MUM, OR PROBABLY TO MUCH. DO NOT LET HIM HIGHJACK THIS THREAD. IGNORE THE PIECE OF CRAP

  • sotiredofthebs

    A white washed killer.

  • grevyturty

    He was an absolute piece of filth and the world is better off without him. Hope he is roasting in hell and that the families of the people he murdered are able to find peace.

  • SocietyIsDead

    So glad there are other people out there that actually register the facts! People are more concerned with where their opinion places them in the public’s eye within their social standings than with who Mandela actually was, why he spent 27 years in prison (got off easy) and what he actually stood for (UmKhonto we Sizwe) The worst thing is that you’re forced to learn that he is a hero in school. I used to defend him until I actually researched him, years ago.

    • DanielHilliard

      awwww. your racist friends got ahold of you and made you feel bad for respecting Madiba? So then you made the choice to be ignorant? That’s cute.

  • George Dubbs

    Read what the web has to say about the crime rate in South Africa >>>since mdiidella and his thugs took over Ist in RAPES and high in every other crimes committed ..So what did the the great one do good???NOTHING not to mention the murderous past he had…

    • Thato Mafanti

      Mandela.
      Did he rape those people?

      • George Dubbs

        most like did when he was one ot the biggest killers in the world Remember killing is 2nd SO SURE HE DID WAS PART OF HIS AGENDA ” WOMEN ARE DIRT”

      • Anonymous

        NO! WHY WOULD YOU THINK THAT! That’s not even humanly possible. He did rape any of those people.

        • Anonymous

          Didn’t

    • megapode

      This is a myth regularly repeated in SA, and it is a myth and it has been debunked. Crime rates now are down from their early 90s peaks.

      Those of you who “read the web” will, of course, have seen this article which doesn’t just make claims but examines the issues and produces some numbers.

      http://mg.co.za/article/2013-10-10-are-sa-whites-really-being-killed-like-flies

      • Anonymous

        So, making people equal, is nothing. Well, let me tell you, sitting on your computer and having the nerve to type something so idiotic and false, is TRULY doing nothing. Now grab that burger you were eating and stop being racist. Like megapode said above, what you typed was false. Next time get your research for a trusted website instead of some racist blog.

    • DanielHilliard

      nice hate and sunglasses. You look like a french Elton John. but much stupider based on your comment.

    • hardrock

      Now get off of your sister & go feed your inbred children.

  • Silver Fox

    Mandela did what was necessary to make ALL people equal in South Africa. I don’t see any of you crying over the thousands murdered by the apartheid regimes in the 50 years of National party rule. I don’t see any tears over the like of Steve Biko or the hundreds of prisoners who “slipped and fell” or “committed suicide” or mysterious car crashes that conveniently killed those fighting for equal rights.

    South Africa was a police state protecting an elitist white society and holding themselves as better than all other population groups. Pretty much what the Nazis did in Germany in the 30s and 40s.

    The suppressive regimes created a bitter and angry second class population, and now you are reaping the fruits of their arrogance, bigotry, racism and the hatred it created. Are you surprised that they are s racist as the previous regime??

    South Africa’s racist policies have borne this fruit, so don’t cry because you now have to deal with it

    • DanielHilliard

      100% correct. you’re on the wrong website…it’s mostly empty-headed white supremacists on this site.

      • Jane

        better than black supremists like you!The white man still has to wipe your ass for you, you cant do anything by yourself!

  • :Anime:

    If you didn’t know, Mandela was put in jail on August 5, 1962. He was released Feb. 11, 1990. He trial wasn’t even then and it is IMPLAUSABLE that Mandela was able to sign off on it. HE WAS IN JAIL! He was completely cut off from an outside social interaction. AND, If you decide to actually do your own research, it told you nothing about him spending this much on defense when he was president. To add, Madagascar can’t be established as an actual Developed country. It has too many animals and is considered sacred land (Technically). Let us just get this straight. NO DICTATOR WOULD WASTE THERE TIME ON ANOTHER COUNTRY’S PROBLEM. Even if Mandela was friendly to dictators, that shows nothing suspicious. To prove my theory, you could also question why he decided to get so close to his enemies, the government ruling at that time. It was to make sure he could end apartheid. Most, maybe even all, of this information is false. Mandela choice, at first, was war, but he knew that wasn’t what he need to do to show his cause. This article just proves that Mandela was an amazing human being, showing compassion and caring. No one has any right to be so disrespectful to him, considering all that he did. There is no ‘true color’. Everyone is equal. You had no right to post this article. May he rest in peace. Nelson Mandela: 1918-2013

    • :Anime:

      His trial* Mandela’s choice, at first,*

  • M_Young

    “The apartheid regime was a crime against humanity; as illogical as it was cruel.”

    No, it was an attempt to preserve something of civilization on a dark, dark continent.

    • Thato Mafanti

      As a young black South African, I find what you are saying quite offensive.
      What is your definition of civilisation? Tall buildings? Roads? Rail Roads? Shopping malls?

      I would like to point out one neighbouring country: Lesotho. That country has never been colonised, yet it is going strong. No wars. No out of this world corruption. It is still a Kingdom today and I can go there and see the most beautiful landscapes.

      Civilisation is not about what the strong colonies enforced on people that were minding their own business wherever God had placed them. It’s about a CULTURE. A culture that might not involved technology or advanced architecture. It’s a CULTURE where people feel safe and are comfortable with whatever surrounding they have.

      There might be a lot of African countries that have barbaric power hungry leaders, but there African leaders who can actually use their brains,
      South Africa, is DEFINITELY one of those countries

      Also, your logic doesn’t make sense, how does oppression preserve civilisation?
      I think you need to have a look at all the acts that were passed during Apartheid and ask yourself how that can possibly preserve civilisation.

      • Jane

        What is considered colonized?? Canada is being colonzied but bastard east indians and chinese.

        • hardrock

          When did your people colonize Canada? Jane…sounds like a native name. Jane walks with head up ass – your native moniker.

          • Jane

            Im not native, I am half acadian- the first settlers in canada who started the fur trade, the salted fish trade, the lumber trade. We worked side by side with the natives and got along fine with them for 150 years until the english got jealous and came over to ruin things. We came in 1625.

          • Jane

            We started the very first settlement in north america in nova scotia.

          • JSal

            So you’re not a native & you have issues with non-native people immigrating to Canada? I’m trying to follow your BS.

  • Kenny Wickmann

    Thankfully that old child killer is now dead,..I pity the worms.

  • http://www.blomlaw.co.nz/ John Cox

    Mandela was a terrorist, a Communist sympathiser, an appeaser of tyrants world-wide. He purported to be a supporter of human rights, but curtained those of White South Africans. This “tolerant humanitarian” often sang “Kill the Boer” in public. He never apologised for his bombing campaign, or killing of White civilians.

    Apartheid was neither a crime against humanity, nor illogical – it was an attempt to keep racist tyrants like Mandela from coming to power. A pity it was never going to work.

    • megapode

      Not so, apartheid was designed to carve out a preferential situation for white people. As a result of that system and it’s cruel legal framework many people born within the borders of South Africa were denied the franchise and deprived of their citizenship. John, you are putting horses before carts here. Mandela nor the ANC did not simply spring up one day and start planting bombs, there was a long history of attempts at peaceful protest and negotiation with the government. Apartheid was not contrived to prevent a Mandela coming to power, but Mandela did develop as he did because of Apartheid.

      • DanielHilliard

        of course you’re write. John Cox is simply an imbecile trying to rewrite history so his other imbecile friends will have something else to say.

  • Fat Lip

    but he was our friend, israel’s friend, you pick your friends too

  • abd

    what a loosers

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  • Iris

    “I was not a messiah, but an ordinary man who had become a leader because of extraordinary circumstances.” – Nelson Mandela

  • D

    Is it me, or do the links refer to an Amnesty International website report that was publised in 1965, well before the time in question?

  • Hugo

    Read below! End of discussion

    • megapode

      I doubt that claim is true. What about Zimbabwe?

      AA is not about “protection”. That’s missing the point. It’s about correcting for decades of arbitrary disadvantage.

    • JSal

      Times Newspapers, since 1981 a subsidiary of News UK, itself wholly owned by the News Corp group headed by Rupert Murdoch. The same guy that owns Fox News…hmmmm.

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  • François De S. Labrecque

    What about abortion ?

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  • Fenman

    7 bombing incidents in his history of a fight for freedom of the majority? The US dropped more cruise missiles in Baghdad in the first 5 minutes of their illegal invasion of Iraq.

    How much does the US spend annually on armaments?

    The US supported Bin Laden while he was fighting the USSR and Sadam in his fight with Iran. Expediency is not the preserve of Nelson Mandela.

  • t dogg

    Daniel: A+. keep on trolling those nobrainers, im v proud of u BB

  • gregkliebigsr

    PLEASE, WILL SOMEONE TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT THIS MONSTER! PLEASE!!

  • Pingback: Nelson Mandela: No Gandhi; No Martin Luther King; Not Even Close—Che Guevara is mor like it | Free The Animal

  • Vindicator

    The flag was lowered to half-staff for this terrorist. Anyone who claims that isn’t racially motivated is out of his or her mind.

    • megapode

      I believe that protocol dictates that the flags fly at half-staff on the death of any previous President. It’s not about race, it’s about the office. PW Botha’s family were offered a full State funeral with all the trappings thereof.

  • Phil Taylor

    Strange how that man Peter Hain who helped that mass killer Mugabe take over Rhodesia is on all of this.

  • Anthony Pendleton

    What does a solder do now that gays are openly serving in the military when someone yells shoot the cocksucker? The military is not a place for polite language usually. What is a soldier to do, WHAT?

  • MandelaBO55

    If you know little about Africa and Mandela please don’t put things out of context to suit your story editor. Any man given the power to lead a country (or with enough money for his own house) would invest heavily on security one way or another.

  • MEL

    Several friends of ours were forced to leave their home in South Africa because they are white. One friend went back last year and she was amazed to see the corruption and crime and hear from friends who remained just how bad it is for them. The MSM news will not mention any of this! Especially these past 5 years and even more so since Mandela’s passing away. I’m sure he did some good, but I’d prefer to view all truths, not just selected facts like we see in the America MSM news, excepting Fox.

    • DanielHilliard

      The mainstream media is out to get you!!!! It’s a conspiracy!!! You can only trust Fox News!!!!! LOL. Idiot. PS. Choosing to leave your home because you’re uncomfortable with black people having equality is not the same as “being forced to leave.” If their friends still remain in SA, why were your friends forced to leave? Stop playing victim. You and your friends victimize yourselves with your stupidity and intolerance.

      • MEL

        Thanks for your input. But you really have no idea, do you. And frankly, we need not give one such as you all the details, as you’d have the same uninformed come back. But, have a really nice day now ya hear.

        • yelram4life

          What a witty retort to such a witty retort. Love how you overuse the English language. Flowery responses online are the calling cards of morons.

        • Danielzinho

          Stealing words from Bill O’Reilly now? Try not speaking in phrases that you learned from Fox News. I promise you that you’ll sound much smarter.

          • MEL

            O’Reilly and I use the same dictionary, and went to the same school. I’m retired, and don’t need to sound smart. But thanks for the advice.

      • Jane

        Thats all we hear in canada is how blacks are the poor victims. Boo hoo!!

        • Danielzinho

          Whhaaaaaaaa. I have to hear that blacks are victims!! Whaaaaa!!!! It’s so inconvenient for me!!! I’m going to cry about it online. Do everyone a favor and shut your hole Jane. You know what…. shut all your holes.

          • Jane

            go fuck yourself!

          • Danielzinho

            That’s all I hear on the internet is racists crying about how they don’t like blacks in their country. Boo hoo!!!!

        • Thato Mafanti

          I’m a black South African and I’m no victim!
          Very stereotypical comment there lady.

      • Jane

        Must be a shithole for beautiful white girls.

        • JaneisanIdiot

          When did you start thinking like an ass hole. WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHITE GIRLS! I COULD CARE LESS IF IT WAS A SHITHOLE FOR THEM. You moronic, inconsiderate bitch. It’s your fault for taking over their country. Blacks were not greedily taking everything they could. It was whites who took what they had and enslaved them. So, Next time, being that your head in stuck up in your ass, quiting being such a whore and go get a life.

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  • James_CABT

    You need to check your history friend. You cite terrorist attacks carried out in the 80′s when Mandela was locked away in prison with no means of communicating with MK. “Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed by Nelson Mandela’s MK terrorists.” Privode exidence for this claim that he was in any way at the helm when these attacks took place.

    • Cab Jones

      Except the Johannesburg station bombing wasn’t in the 80′s — it was in 1964. Oops! Wasn’t Mandela in prison even then? At least it was the ANC/MK. Oops! A white member Frederick John Harris of the ARM confessed to it and he was hanged for it in 1965. What’s more, only one person was killed although many injured. Not to dismiss a single life, but to point out that the writer of this article–it looks like he is just making up stuff. What do you readers think?

      - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_John_Harris

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  • DirtyD

    I’m fapping to this discussion…

    Seriously, everyone should just move to where Jesus lives, ‘MERIKUH!!!

    FUCK YEAH!!!

    m/ m/

  • Deon Bezuidenhout

    A fourth thing you don’t want to know about your god mandela, the dead terrorist: When a WHITE boy got stabbed by a BLACK boy at a school, the white boy ended up in hospital, not sure if he made it through the whole ordeal. The hero of the nations, your beloved dead terrorist GAVE the black, poor, oppressed, previously disadvantaged criminal, scissors wielding hero of the black masses R20 000. 00 from his ”personal” money to carry on with his ‘studies’ while he is incarcerated. That little turd will obviously now qualify for a governmental position, as he at least tried to kill a white person and also did some jail time. YIPPEE, this is the South Africa the assholes in the world cut South Africa off from the rest of the world with sanctions, etc.
    During those times, the WHITEMAN in this country developed fuel from coal – SASOL, the R1 assault rifle, R4 and R5 military assault rifles, G4 & G5 canons, Ratel troop carrier, elephant tank, Rooivalk attack helicopter, and who knows what else on the civilian front. The exchange rate was US$2 to one South African Rand. Petrol at one stage was something stupid like R0, 50/ litre, etc, etc.
    Since 1994 more municipalities have had to be placed under administration, funds have disappeared, basic services have become luxuries, ambulances have been used for personal gain by being used as taxis or for the transportation of stolen copper cable, and the list goes on. But you know what: FREE MANDELA. Shame on you whites. Well buddy, screw you, I will NEVER be sorry that I am a white male, and I will NEVER suck up to ANYONE, including your dead terrorist god mandela, just to be politically correct.

  • artrock

    so lets talk theoretically, could bin laden had he not been killed go on to become president?

    • hardrock

      Dumber than a bag of dicks.

  • ex South African

    I think that everyone has forgotten that Mandela was a terrorist and associate of dictators who refused to denounce wrongs even by his own admission and due to stupidity by people in power at the time brought about the destruction of the great nation of South Africa.

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  • rob

    The dates of the terrorist activities all list incidents that occurred whilst Mandela had been in prison for over 20 years. The original MK “M Plan” (Mandela Plan), was a programme of controlled sabotage, launching a guerilla war modelled upon the FLN’s struggle in Algeria. Its policy involved the targeting of state buildings for sabotage without resorting to murder. The Incidents reported were carried out under the leadership of Joe Slovo, who reported directly to ANC president Oliver Tambo

  • peoplerfucktards

    i dont understand people. the british invade his homeland. kill and oppress his people. and he is some sort of monster for doing anything in his power to get them to relinquish control??? use your brains people. how many people did he kill while in power?? he had every opportunity to settle the score and he took the high road. his mission was already accomplished by getting rid of british control. he did what he could to ease racial tensions.

    • Rhett Jones

      you should change your name to yourfuktard

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  • lah

    Can’t we all just relax, stop calling each retards or any other such comments, stop discussing the merits or flaws of either US political party, stop talking about race relations and just respect that Mandela was a somewhat decent human being?

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  • Vote_them_all_out

    You will never hear this in the US media, ever…they are bought and paid for stooges

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  • ASSASSYN

    Hard to be ruled by white extremist looking to make your people second class citizens in their own country when you have military hardware. Vietnamese discovered that.

  • boredofcanada

    “The real tragedy is that too many in the West can’t bring themselves to
    see what the great man himself has said all along; that he’s just as
    flawed as the rest of us, and should not be put on a pedestal.”

    Just as flawed as the rest of us. I’ll take that into consideration for the next attack on civilians I commit.

  • Henri le Riche

    Never forget South Africa’s “Boston bombing” moment……

    http://crime-of-apartheid.blogspot.com.au/2011/01/20-may-1983-mandelas-church-st-bomb.html

  • boitie gaan border toe.

    Did not Mandela not condemn the Saro Wiwa Hangings after they occurred?

    • boitie gaan border toe.

      Sorry for the poor English, Above should read – “Did Mandela not condemn…” Also , to be fair he pressed for Nigeria’s suspension from the commonwealth. Perhaps the other has a different point.

  • Banana Split

    Where did this LEE JENKINS dig this up from what’s his source / reference ? Is it the TRUTH or is it more Sensational LIES ?

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  • graybear

    He was a hell of a lot more flawed than I am or any of my friends. We would never have committed the atrocities he did. Admitted his “mistakes”? MISTAKE?! You’ve got to be kidding me. That’s what the Nazis said before they were hanged. Oh, that’s right, they were the losers. Winners get away with rewriting anything they want.

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  • Joe F

    Should say that all the instances of terrorism you cite happened when Madiba had already been in prison for 19 years. He might still have been authorising/condoning these acts but I certainly can’t find any evidence. When he was leader of MK, he advocated and practiced sabotage, which is slightly different from terrorism. Only if that failed did he personally even consider terrorism.

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  • Fafa

    You are aware that Mandela was arrested on 5 August 1962 and was in prison till 11 February 1990. I am not saying he is perfect or that he has not done anything wrong ever, But attributing attacks to him from 1985-1988 while he was behind bars might be a bit much.

  • RyanDemSA

    I suggest you educate yourself: Mandela was in prison then. In isolation. Get your facts straight. Yes, UmKhonto we Sizwe did those crimes but not under his orders. He was a mere prisoner then who was not heard from until his release in 1990. There is no record of any such orders by Mandela. Its worth reading this: https://medium.com/p/dc527e92b0f0

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  • POOPOOPANTS

    is south Africa just south of Australia?

  • POOPOOPANTS

    or is that spain?

  • POOPOOPANTS

    hang on, sorry im just looking at a map, is it somewhere in the sea of tranquility

  • POOPOOPANTS

    are south Africa and north Africa part of the same island? and do they eat spahetti or am i thinking of Mongolia, ???

  • POOPOOPANTS

    anyway, capetown library assistant said my internet time is up, i wonder if ill ever find out where south africa is :-(

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  • viwe nokoyo

    Nobody here knows the real apartheid, I was a student 13years of age during apartheid and let me tell you- it is not a time in which any of you could could wish on your worst enemy. Firstly, I was forced to not only use and be taught in a language that I had no understanding of but it was also not even a globally used language, my father worked tirelessly with no holiday some years under strict white rule and my mother was forced by a white guard to eat powdered detergent just because she had bought it at a “whites only are” today at 50 I have a good job and two adorable kids one of which undoubtedly loves her white friends and school mates but I still find myself fearing the fact that she may be mixing with children whom have parents who grew up in a separated nation and those children may be taught to dislike blacks. What I’m trying to say is: before you discredit Madia’s efforts and label those who support him as racist and terrorists remember that thousands of black south Africans were treated like rubbish in their native land, pushed to non-arable land and forced to eat the dust off white men and women. The black South African during the regime had no freedom and no equality…if you had an opinion opposing the nationalist government you were the meal of the day so please explain to me how the regime could have been collapsed peacefully when marchers were gunned down in sharpville for protesting with anti-government banners? How were we to live under the gun and fight back with a feather? Who ever says Blacks and whites mixed is speaking only for a handful of citizens as we all know that not every white was pro-apartheid but the majority who gained immensely were either bystanders or fellow oppressors. White South Africa killed and humiliated even a church priest broke his soul and left him to pick up a thousand splendid pieces with slimy spit on his face so don’t come up here and lie to people telling them about the regime through rosy sunglasses because the majority never shared the same of anything even nutrition was not to be shared.

  • Anonymous

    Let’s just get this straight. No American here, white, black OR mixed, have any idea on what is was like to experience apartheid. All of us, expect those born or lived/living in South Africa, have no willing right to say what we ‘think’, key word, of what happened. Have you ever imagined what people went through. Dark-skinned South Africans being beat, shot and bombed just because the were dark, for being themselves, for goodness sake! The light-skinned South-Africans being bombed because of the enormous problems they caused. I have to admit, there are better ways this could have been solved, but it ended the way it did for a reason. Remember that. Madia stood up for something other people were to scared to do, nothing can change that. Think about what you type for a moment. Realize everyone here made mistakes. Half, maybe even all, that was typed here, was racist. And don’t you ever think for a moment that you are SOOOO much better than them, because trust me, this can happen to anyone, in any countries, so, in conclusion, no one is perfect and ANY of us can end up in a situation like this.

    May Madia live on in all hearts who truly care~

    May he rest in peace, knowing that everyone is equal and his story is told.

  • George Dubbs

    Hardhead You are one sick amabo/mandeelo ass kisser.

    • Anonymous

      I prefer not to use profanity. I guess that’s just because I am mature. Unlike others, Why don’t the whites start owning up to THEIR mistakes. You all need to realize, what sick, revolting things you things you did to the young and old, wealthy and poor black South-Africans. THEY KILLED THEM. Took away their precious lives. Imagine what hatred you would feel towards whites if they killed someone you love. You wake up every day planning revenge. That is why AT FIRST he thought of war, THEN realized, ‘Oh, This is getting no where. Maybe peace is better.’ He learned from his mistakes. This entire article is low, even lower than most imbeciles. People who are supporting this article have never thought a day in there lives about someone else. And to add, if he was such a bad person, why would even the white South-Africans like him. Think about that before another asinine thought comes to your mouth.

      • George Dubbs

        Think about this..who sold the blacks to slave buyers that brought them to this country and why weren’t we hearing about that? BLACKS! who made life a lot better living in America then had they not come over? Whites..I am 70 years old and have never done anything to harm a black person but yet am accused of mistreating them WHY? REVENGE!! What he and his followers did to the white property owners in south Africa and to other African Blacks that does not follow his belief is the very essence of REVENGE zimbabwe WHO ARE YOU GOING TO BLAME THERE??so don’t set there all high and mighty trying to act like a saint..that goes for mandela also was a murdering thug and he is paying for it now..can’t fool god..

        • Anonymous

          I’ll ignore your stupidity. But, Blacks did not sell there other black companions. The whites traveled over to Africa and fought MOST of the tribes there. Then stole them, to enslave them. Maybe the reason why you could understand that is because your a racist white. Yeah, everyone here would take revenge on a person for killing another that they actually care about. The people that killed thousands of thousand of Black South-Africans should be the ones blamed If this is the only argument you uphold, this is extremely easy to prove. I’m not a saint, you aren’t a saint. You aren’t god messenger. I’m not trying to act like a saint OR god’s messenger. I am just supporting mandala because he did good. He helped others. Have you? Have you truly ever helped anyone unconditionally? God knows where he is. But you don’t. It is insensitive to even bring that up. He is in heaven with Martin Luther King Jr. and Rosa Parks. YOU can’t fool god. God knows what he is doing. He doesn’t need you to support him. You need him, You need to truly find god. And find the meaning of equality.
          My Mandala be sending praise in God’s kingdom.

  • allessior

    Yes, it is definitely OK to kill innocent women and children in the early phases of your career as a statesman.

    Think about it, NM did participate in 156 acts of terror in the beginning years of his careers ss s statesman. These are what you call FACTS. Many of these 156 “events” resulted in the death or maming of thousands of women, children, boys, and men.

    I guess what most of you who worship NM are saying is, “Give terrorists a chance. As they grow older they will see the futility of their ways and they could become great statesman if only they had the time.”

    The logical extension of this is, “Let us give whoever we believe to be terrorists 156 “terrorist incidents”. If they stop at 156 incidents, go to jail, and then repent, eventually becoming statesmen, then we MUST forgive them and allow them to re-enter polite society as a true statesmen. If they become true-blue statesmen, then the thousands of families impacted by the statesman’s past transgressions MUST FORGIVE the statesman.

    This is not strange y’all. It is essentially what you are saying. So from this point forward, let us not over react to acts of terrorism. Even if a terrorist takes your 10 year old daughter, tortures her, and does everything to make your life miserable, you must resist the temptation to seek revenge. Give it some time, that is, give it several more acts of terrorism;,in this way the actor may turn himself into a statesman, at which point we can all celebrate.

    • megapode

      The first problem with this number 156 that is being batted around is that Mandela was never charged with murder – only with sabotage. You will, of course, appreciate that murder and sabotage are not the same thing.
      It would have suited the then government to try Mandela for murder and find him guilty, but they never even bought that charge against him. Now why my that be, do you suppose?

      • allessior

        It is an established FACT the your hero, NM, murdered and maimed countless women, children, and men. Many were completely innocent, this is a FACT. You must come to the same conclusion as I have, and that is,,”If someone kills innocent people in the name of a nobel cause,, and then later becomes a great statesman, then, we must, WE MUST, give any person who starts out with a cause, with “collateral” damage from their cause, give that person ample time to prove they are a statesman before we condemn them for killing the innocent.”

        This is in fact what you are saying, and you MUST ADMIT THIS in order to be consistent.

        Your hero, NM, indeed KILLED innocent people, including the most defenseless among us, little babies. But that’s ok by the apparently prevailing logic that once a person becomes a nobel statesman, their past transgressions, including butchery and murder of the innocent, can be forgiven.

        Rubbish!

        • http://www.graphicline.co.za/ Mike Otgaar

          If that is what you believe, then so did did Verwoerd, Vorster, PW Botha.- see my comment

          • allessior

            It is not a matter of belief, it is a matter of what has actually occurred. Let us not rewrite history.

        • megapode

          Mandela was never charged with murder – as I pointed out. Nor did he plead guilty to 156 acts of … well anything really at Rivonia. He plead not guilty. But since you are making the assertion that he is responsible for the death and maming (sic) of thousands it would seem to fall to you to provide evidence of that.