• Cypherpunk

    Cyprus is a bad example. People had lost 10%, but if state ain’t did bail out to banks, they’d lost 100%.

  • sorryforlaughing

    As has been pointed out numous times before, theft is unlawful taking. Tax is mandated by the government and, by definition, cannot be theft.

    • cypherpunks01

      Wrong. By definition, theft is the taking of another person’s property without that person’s permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it.

      If you do not give the state permission to take your items, it is a theft. When the state points guns at you in order to expropriate money, it is a robbery. State “law” is a bullshit.

      • sorryforlaughing

        Are you 12 or 13? The state defines the law. In the UK it is a crime not to pay tax therefor tax cannot, by definition, be a crime. The state is endowed with the right to tax, that is the nature of statehood.

        • http://www.facebook.com/olly.neville Olly Neville

          The State has the power to kill people, are you saying that all state run genocides are legal as the state defines the law. By your logic the holocaust was totally legitimate. Not a position I’d like to defend…

          • sorryforlaughing

            Genocide is prohibited under numerous international conventions and the perpetrators were justly tried for their crimes. Perhaps you could point me to the international convetions which prohibit tax.

        • cypherpunks01

          Historical evidence tells me your statement about “state defines the law” is simply not true.

          Private law and arbitration always existed. Sometimes in the past, private law also included real criminal cases.

          • sorryforlaughing

            Would you care to provide such ‘historical evidence’ rather than asserting it? You might want to also explain how it relates to contemporary rule of law, where modern states have the monopoly on the legitimate (emphasis here) on violence.

          • cypherpunks01

            Please read Myth of National Defence and history of security production: http://mises.org/document/1092/Myth-of-National-Defense-The-Essays-on-the-Theory-and-History-of-Security-Production (just first chapter should be enough).

            You’re right, modern states have monopoly on legitimate violence, my point is that it is unnecessary and less effective as compared to private production of security and private courts. The book explains this idea and provides empirical evidence about this too.

          • sorryforlaughing

            “my point is that it is unnecessary and less effective as compared to
            private legitimate production of security and private courts.”

            This is again a massive and unproven assumption. There will always be those who due to lack of information or wealth have significantly inhibited or unequal access to the market.

            The latest UN report on Human Development helps to explain (without such highly scientific terms as, ‘cool’) just how the state has helped to reduce poverty, ill health and poor education throughout the developing world, where the market has been an object failure.

            We actually live in a safer age than ever before, comparatively fewer deaths from war, famine and disease than ever before and the vast vast majority of academics, politicians and the public acknowledge the role of the state in this.

  • sorryforlaughing

    As has been pointed out numous times before, theft is unlawful taking. Tax is mandated by the government and, by definition, cannot be theft.

  • Lee Jenkins

    If ones starting point is that states are, in and of themselves, illegitimate, then anything they do is illegitimate. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong, but it does somewhat limit the scope for debate.

  • http://twitter.com/chrstinadarling Christina

    It’s Eurasia you idiot