It’s time to consign Male Genital Mutilation to the dustbin of history.

Men and boys and those who love them are adversely affected in many areas by the empathy gender gap, a direct consequence of gynocentrism. Wikipedia’s entry on the term starts with this:

Gynocentrism n. (Greek, γυνή, ‘female’ – Latin centrum, ‘centred’) refers to a dominant or exclusive focus on women in theory or practice; or to the advocacy of this. Anything can be considered gynocentric (adj.) when it is concerned exclusively with a female (or specifically a feminist) point of view.

Gynocentrism accounts for the widespread societal concern about non-therapeutic circumcision of female minors (Female Genital Mutilation, ‘FGM’), which is rare in the UK, and the relative disinterest in the equivalent for male minors (Male Genital Mutilation, ‘MGM’), which is common in the UK.

Relentless feminist narratives in the mainstream media have succeeded in persuading the public of a number of myths about FGM and MGM, including:

  1.    FGM is carried out at the behest of men, with the aim of reducing women’s pleasure during sex, helping men to ‘control’ women. The plain truth is that wherever FGM is carried out, it is carried out at the behest of women, and almost invariably by women. This helps explain why there has never been a successful prosecution for FGM in the UK – the police target men, not women.  
  2.    The harm caused by FGM is always far worse than that caused by MGM. This is a complex area, in part because of the number of different forms of FGM and MGM, and I refer the reader to an article by Brian D Earp, a Research Fellow at the University of Oxford, Female genital mutilation and male circumcision: should there be a separate ethical discourse?

Practitioners of MGM are not routinely prosecuted by the criminal justice system in the UK, which has naturally led people to assume the practice is legal. This is not the case. James Chegwidden is a barrister, and in 2013 he gave a talk on the legal position of MGM, starting with:

The default position of the criminal law is that circumcision is a crime, and it requires a parliamentary override to stop it being a crime.

There is no such parliamentary override, so performing MGM is a crime. In their responses to our Freedom of Information challenges on MGM, neither the Home Office (with responsibility for the police) nor the Crown Prosecution Service denied that MGM is a crime – but they declined to explain why prosecutions are not routinely being brought against practitioners.

People often assume that religious and/or cultural considerations mean that performing MGM can be legal. They are mistaken. A long history of case law makes it clear that exemptions on these grounds are inadmissible (in England and Wales, at least).

MGM breaches several Articles of United Nations and European Union conventions. On the website of the Children’s Commissioner for England, we find this claim:

Children’s rights: Every child under the age of 18 has all the rights of the UNCRC.

The UNCRC is the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. In September 2015 we presented Anne Longfield, Children’s Commissioner for England, with a Lying Feminist of the Month award, in recognition of the claim.

Proponents of the mutilation of boys’ genitals frequently assert that medical benefits result from the procedure – for men, or for their sexual partners – but almost all such claims have been successfully debunked, and for the remainder, the alleged benefits don’t justify the risks associated with MGM, including the risks of physical or psychological harm, or death. We recommend a video (49:32) of a presentation given in 2015 by Tim Hammond, an independent American researcher, on the Global Survey of Circumcision Harm.

MGM is known to have been practiced since at least the time of the Ancient Egyptians, so what was the historical purpose of amputating the extremely nerve-rich foreskin? A wide-ranging article on MGM by William Collins cites a lengthy passage written by Moses Maimonides, a leading Jewish intellectual and physician, in 1135. An extract:

With regard to circumcision, one of the reasons for it is, in my opinion, the wish to bring about a decrease in sexual intercourse and a weakening of the organ in question, so that this activity be diminished and the organ be in as quiet a state as possible.

The fact that circumcision weakens the faculty of sexual excitement and sometimes perhaps diminishes the pleasure is indubitable. For if at birth this member has been made to bleed and has had its covering taken away from it, it must indubitably be weakened. In my opinion, this is the strongest of the reasons for circumcision. Jewish men, sexually subdued and readily controlled by their wives, don’t stray into mischief. The power of his member has been diminished so that he has no strength to lie with many lewd women.

For confirmation that MGM reduces the pleasure experienced by men during sex, we need to listen to men circumcised as adults, such as here (video, 21:40).

Justice for Men & Boys is the only political party in the English-speaking world campaigning for the human rights of men and boys, on many fronts. Our electoral strategy is to challenge the party (or parties) in power. At the 2020 general election we plan to field candidates in the top 20 Conservative marginal seats, with the objective of consigning the party to Opposition for five years. The funding streams for those candidates’ deposits were in place a few weeks after the 2015 general election.

Our 2015 general election manifesto explored 20 areas where British men’s and boys’ human rights are assaulted by the actions and inactions of the state, usually to advantage women or girls. MGM was one of the areas covered in the manifesto (pp. 9,10). There are no areas where the human rights of British women and girls specifically are being assaulted by the state.

Mike Buchanan is a men’s human rights advocate and the leader of the political party ‘Justice for men & boys (and the women who love them)’.

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227 COMMENTS

  1. Genital Mutilation – an open letter to UK politicians and media:
    http://antimisandry.com/content/genital-mutilation-open-letter-uk-politicians-media-303/

    “…Even though it has been illegal for many years for a medical practitioner to withhold information about FGM or even a suspected danger of FGM, there has not been a single case for prosecution in over ten years; organisations and political lobbyists claim proof of FGM being rife in the UK but not one of them ever respond to enquiries about this proof, so that a prosecution can proceed. Yet millions of pounds of tax money and many thousands of hours of public servants’ time are spent every year chasing this elusive horror. Perhaps it is enough that the publicity and campaigns against the terrible practice are working, and that there are, in fact, as few incidences and the lack of prosecutions indicate. If so, we can all be glad.

    Since 1985, sexual discrimination on genital mutilation has been written into UK law. At the time, some argued that the Offences Against The Person Act was sufficient and some argued that if it is wrong to unnecessarily perform surgery on a female, then it is surely wrong to do so on a male. Nevertheless, the constitution and Human Rights treaties requiring sexual equality under the law were ignored, and male genital integrity was denied…”

      • That seems a rather stupid question to ask on a UK political site.

        It also implies that you don’t care about anyone outside of those who tax you.

        When you grow up, come back to international politics.

        • You will be a Muslim state before long! I pay as little taxes as possible I write things off, make money offshore and the non-profit corp I have owns my cars, homes and boats…..fuck paying taxes!

          • According on reports they said France would go first, England second and now because of Merkyl Germany! You better wake up! England is no great loss….your food suck and you have had some good musicians.

  2. A court in Cologne already ruled that it caused bodily harm. Unfortunately the Jewish lobby went crying to the press about persecution and the Germans (still desperate to forget ww2) passed a law allowing. That’s right they passed a law specifically to allow bodily harm to a child because of the Jewish. Norway tried the same thing and again got smashed down by the Jews. Now I’m atheist but I have no issues with other people practising whatever religions they want. But you can not use religion to justify child abuse. Just imagine what the outcry would be if muslims tried to get diyya in law under religious freedoms?

  3. I’m not going to make this any harder than it has to be. Mutilating the genitals of a child, regardless of gender, meets all legal definitions of molestation and torture.

    Having witnessed such a cruel and despicable act upon a baby boy and suffered trauma which I still have yet to fully recover from, and knowing that it is completely unnecessary, makes me more angry than you will ever know.

    I pray that I never ever see someone doing this to another baby because if this ever happens again there will be no second chances for the perpetrator. I am not a violent person and have never directly threatened anyone with serious harm. They will PERMANENTLY lose the use of one or both hands and if they are stupid enough to fight back they will lose even more. I don’t understand why they call it “circumcision”, when the reality is that a defenceless baby is having the most sensitive part of his penis hacked off. Circumcision is not medicine. It is genital mutilation and there is ample evidence to prove that. It should be a criminal offence right up there with child molestation, rape and murder. It should never be tolerated in any civilised society. It should never be a requirement for any religion and the right to bodily autonomy trumps religion. Period.

    I can’t make it any more transparent.

  4. Circumcision perfects the imperfect! There is no mutilation. My boys and I have perfectly sculptured penis’. I wouldn’t be uncut for $1,000,000.00! Being uncircumcised is disgusting and so sub-human.

    • you, sir, have a sick attitude toward what you will never accept as the natural human form. foreskin is a normal part of a normal human being. get used to it. it is never going away.
      what you and your boys have, is a partial penis.
      I would wager that the statue of the David looks subhuman to you, because of the peculiar way you have been taught.
      does your wife’s clitoral foreskin make her subhuman?

        • Circumcision is already going away.
          The CDC stopped publishing the percentage of boys who are being circumcised, after it dropped to what they admit was 32.5%.
          Your boys will be growing up in a majority uncut nation.

          • Dude, 80% of white male babies are circumcised everyday! The rate is down on the west coast because all the damn wetbacks that breed! The animals make up 4 of ever 6 births and do not circumcise! We need to deport all 11 million of them, to include their bastard anchor babies!

          • 80%. Please cite a source.
            Your New York Post link said the rate was down to 55%, and even that is far out of date, by about 6 years and 23 percentage points.

          • You never refuted what I said, when I quoted the New York Post article you lied about.
            You also were unable to refute the link in the New York Times I posted.
            What a loser.

          • Even the CDC says the rate is down because of the illegal Hispanic population. Te 32.5% in California does not even count the circumcisions done in office or at home! My boy’s were circumcised at home with about 100 at each of them. My wife did a theme party for they last one, it is all the rage now. Our Mohel does secular non-Jewish circumcisions as well. Many non-Jews are opting in home circumcisions.

          • National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys (NHANES) found that 79% of men reported being circumcised, including 88% of non-Hispanic
            white men, 73% of non-Hispanic black men, 42% of Mexican American men and 50% of men of other races/ ethnicities [57]. It is important to note that reported circumcision status may be subject to misclassification. In a study of adolescents¸ only 69% of circumcised and 65% of uncircumcised young men correctly identified their circumcision status as verified by physical exam.

          • Only the poor and unknown do not circumcise! Better to identify people you would not want to associate with……

          • Are Europeans all poor? WTF? Unknown do not circumcise? You are losing the ability to be rational, Yachty.
            There are whole groups you don’t want to identify with?
            That’s a difference between you and me. People are individuals to me. People are groups of filthy, dirty, uncut masses you don’t want yourself and your kin to associate with, to you. It’s a sad world you inhabit, and it is only going to get smaller every day, as the wetbacks and the disgusting ones close in on your ‘safe’ territory.

          • I could careless what Europeans do! Wetbacks nor most blacks cannot afford my area or are they welcome! The median home price is $4,000,000, so I really don’t think that will be a problem

          • When your kids grow up to hate you, because you removed the 5 most sensitive parts of their dicks, it could become a problem.

          • All their peers are circumcised….no worries! My 8yo knows only poor people and wetbacks do not circumcise. My 5yo goes in the pool naked and then shows everyone his acorn…..lmao! My mother just laughs…….

        • In real life, about 80% of men have foreskins.
          In real life, not all Jews have been circumcised. The Russian Jews, for instance. The ones who wandered in the desert for 40 years didn’t circumcise. Moses didn’t have his son circumcised. Then, there are those who choose brit shalom.

          • Actually the figure is closer to 60%….Jew offer free circumcision to immigrants from Russia etc that were not circumcised. If a kid does not have it done when he becomes of age he is cut off from his people and no longer considered Jewish! Very few idiot parents do not circumcise their boys! We had to supply copies of their Bris Certificates to register them in their Hebrew day school. No Circumcision no entrance!

          • 60%? Based on what?
            There are about 1 billion Jews and Muslims. There are about 300 million Americans. I’m guessing that half of those groups are circumcised, because the rest are women. I am being generous with the numbers here, because there are millions of uncut men in the US.
            There are nearly 9 billion people on the planet.
            No possible way that 60% of them are uncut, unless you are counting the women.

          • Actually I could careless what the Hispanics, Blacks or Asians do, nor do I care about any country other than the USA and Israel…..Caucasians are still at 80% plus!

          • Care to reference anyplace which confirms that caucasians in the US are circumcising at 80%, besides your ass?

          • Do the research…..I live in California with a low rate because only white people have their boys properly trimmed at birth. All my family and friends have or will be circumcising their boys. Hawaii almost has a 100% rate…..

          • I did the research. The most recent rate the CDC published at an AIDS conference in Vienna, showed the US circumcision rate at 32.5%. Then, they stopped publishing the numbers, because it was getting to be embarrassingly low.
            You are telling me to do the research, because you are making up the numbers, and there is nothing you can cite.
            That is because you live in your own little world, where whites reign supreme, women love circumcised ones, and Donald Trump is winning.
            You are in for a rough letdown with circumcision, just like all the other things. You will wake up with a hangover, sooner or later, and there will be a piper to pay.

          • LMAO….that is not what I have read! I do not consider Mexicans as Americans…they are illegal trash that need to be deported. White boys are still being circumcised. Actually Donald Trump is ahead of Clinton by 3 points! That bitch is going down…..Stupid socialist whore!

          • I was born in Newport Beach, California idiot! I have had a house and lived in Newport, RI……Just a bit too cold in winter…..I loved spending summer there with the sailing, polo games and fabulous parties. My East home is in Annapolis, MD, a bit milder and really the sailing capital of the USA……The RE is cheap there as well.

          • CDC- The data suggests there is a racial disparity driven primarily by access to procedure and cultural and educational factors. Circumcision rates over the last decade reached 91 percent in white men, 76 percent in black men and only 44 percent in Hispanic men.

            The authors speculate several reasons for this. In the U.S., the Hispanic population continues to rise, and the researchers suggest that families in this demographic tend to be less familiar with the procedure and its benefits. Additionally, they speculate that the gap in health insurance access — including Medicaid — has resulted in many families opting to skip the procedure to save money. On average, circumcision rates are 24 percent lower in states lacking Medicaid coverage for the poor.

          • A link, or it didn’t happen. I posted links. Now it is your turn.
            Unless you are being dishonest.

          • Told you the wetbacks are the only reason the rates are down! White boys are still being circumcised! Trump will win!

          • You will have to stop posting after November, when Trump and his bigotry will be consigned to the scrap heap of history.
            You have told me lots of stuff, none of it true. You misquoted the site whose link you posted. I have posted something legitimate from the New York Times. It is time for you to produce some real links to back up the crap you are shoveling, or shut up.

          • Senate just came out that they are charging Hillary with perjury…..She will look good in her orange jumper….then she can eat all the pussy she wants!

          • The Post! NY Times will be gone before too long. NY Times is a Liberal BS paper that no one reads anymore. I cancelled it……

          • The ‘piper’ to pay may be a rather important one, too. If he knew his bible (better than he knows anything else) he would understand the insults to God that he makes. Instead, he follows misguided people who want people in THEIR image rather than in God’s.

          • According to your religion Jesus is God, well Jesus was circumcised! Actually some Catholic’s still refer to New Years as the “Feast of the circumcision”.

          • Then why are you bragging about circumcision in Australia and Japan?
            You have nothing to back up your fake 80% statistic.
            80% of whites where? Show us a link, if you can.

          • That number is from WHO…..There are still circumcisions happening in Australia. My none Jewish friends in Australia have 2 circumcised boy’s, but they are rather top drawer! They told me that wealthy people in Oz generally circumcise.All of Pacifica circumcises, Japan has walk in circumcision clinics everywhere…..there is more circumcisions than your narrow mind can handle. Hell, the USA is flipping the bill to circumcise Africa!

          • Almost nobody gets circumsized in New Zealand and Australia anymore, Europe stopped decades ago, Pacific Islanders have never circumsized, Americans, Muslims and Jews are about the last remaining people who still do it.

          • How barbaric! “Please provide legal proof of having illegally injured your child without their possible consent, or we will not educate them.” China got rid of foot binding a hundred years ago, most South American tribes have stopped ear stretching, lip-presurors are almost unknown of in modern Africa, yet the barbarism of mutilating a child’s penis is still performed in so-called ‘civilised’ societies.

            If an adult wants to do it to himself, when he has access to full information about the damage it does and is able to consent to it, that’s one matter. But to purposely and unnecesarily do these kind of body modifications to a child .. the parents should be punished harshly and medical aid needs to be given to the poor kid, male or female.

            Genesis 9:6 “Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind.”
            I hope parents who have mutilated God’s image manage to make their peace with God.

          • You are an idiot! There is nothing illegal to have you boy’s circumcised! This is the USA, the greatest country in history and will be great again as soon as we get rid of the nigger in the White House and elect TRUMP! Circumcision is not shedding blood…..It was G_ds commandment, by circumcision we perfect the imperfect and become a co-creator’s with G_d! That is Kabbalah 101……….

          • Right. You don’t bleed when you are circumcised. That is wine pouring from the wound, right?
            As far as Trump, we’ll all be laughing at you soon.
            What bullshit will you attempt to spread after Trump goes down in flames, and you only have circumcision and racism to talk about?

          • A very little amount of blood….I have been to many and none bled very much. A bris is done on the 8th day and the 8th day is the highest vitamin K you will ever have in your life!
            Trump will win….Hillary the lying bitch had another seizure yesterday! Senate is opening her email case again and is appointing a special prosecutor! The bitch is going down……..

          • First, you say, “Circumcision is not shedding blood”, then you say, “A very little amount of blood….I have been to many and none bled very much. ”

            Then you call Hillary a lying bitch, while lying and saying she had a seizure, when she had pneumonia.
            And you expect people to believe you.
            Still waiting for your links to real information.

          • Many doctors believe she had a seizure. Pneumonia is the way most people suffering from Parkinson’s end up dying from!

          • Old Dude…..Sicklary is dying infront of your liberal eyes…..ABC in NYC announced she was dead last night….go to youtube and look it up! She has Parkinson’s and is on the way out!

          • Nice attempt at deflection.
            Links please, to substantiate your made up claims.
            Hillary may be almost dead, but she will still beat Rump in November.

          • Trump will win by a landslide! As the Senate reopens the email case! If she doesn’t kick it from her Parkinson’s she should go to prison!

    • And you’ve consigned your boys to a life without real sexual pleasure, removing the foreskin removes all the nice little nerve ending which make sex fun, but since you’re got a chopped dick you wouldn’t know, would you. I know several guys who for various reasons had to be circumsized late in life, to a man they all say sex isn’t what it used to be.

  5. It’s time this barbaric practice is put in our past. Why the outrage continues about female circumcision, male circumcision is almost ignored. The hypocrisy of politicians is amazing, if the hint of a female circumcision even comes they immediately denounce any one that would suggest it, but not a hint of a discussion from them about this barbaric practice that is perpetuated against our boys.

  6. At the risk of being the bad guy, the science on circumcision is far from clear, but that notwithstanding.

    You can’t ban circumcision without banning the Jewish religion. That’s it. Jews and Christians believe that the state must be disobeyed when it’s laws contradict the commandments, so making it illegal will mean that the Jews will do it anyway so you will have to start arresting moyels and separating every child of practicing Jews from their parents every single time. The lack of medical facilities will make it more dangerous for the babies health as well.

    No you can’t make the same argument for FGM, that is not commanded by any religion that I know of. And no, you won’t be able to convince the majority of practicing Jews that God didn’t really command it when the Torah makes it incredibly clear.

    Circumcision is one of he oldest surgeries in existence, and for every horror story it goes off without a hitch a thousand times or more. I believe that this issue has gained so much traction because no one is defending it, and it can be defended on scientific and religious grounds.

    That being said, are you really willing to start arresting Jewish people wholesale and separating babies from their parents? Because that is what it will take.

    • And yet, increasing numbers of Jews are rejecting the practice (replacing it with the kinder Bris Shalom) and doing just fine with their religion. There is loads of stuff in the ancient scriptures that is no longer observed as people become more enlightened. Besides the religion or culture of the parents can not override the Human Rights of the child. What about his religious freedom? It can not be defended on scientific grounds, just a load of fallacious, and often fraudulent, bunkum, driven by financial greed, and an unhealthy compulsion of victims to justify and normalize their own loss. No routine circumcision goes off ‘without a hitch’. The very best possible outcome for the victim is that the he has suffered unnecessary trauma and will forever be missing the most sensitive erogenous tissue on his body, without the motile function of which his penis can never function as it was evolved to. It is an ancient sacrificial blood rite practised on helpless infants, that has no place in a civilized society.

      • I don’t think you understand.

        There WILL be many many Jewish people who WILL disobey an anti-circumcision law. This is a fact, you don’t get decide it and I don’t get to decide it. I don’t get to decide what Judaism is nor do any “enlightened” so called persons. The question is how far are YOU willing to go.

        Plan A is to get Jewish people to submit to the state, when they don’t submit what is Plan B?

        In addition, “human rights” according to whom? “Enlightened” according to whom? “Civilized” according to whom?

        You’ve already said there can be no legitimate reason to disagree, are you sure? What happens when the state decides that teaching your children men’s rights is psychologically traumatizing?

        • ‘Taca’ understands very well. You cannot defend MGM on the grounds you have, without also saying Jews, Muslims, and Christians (along with members of other faiths) should be free to do what their holy books dictate. For consistency, if an adherent of one of these faiths followed his (or her) holy book and killed homosexuals and/or adulterers and/or apostates, you’d surely be OK with that? And if not, why not?

          I repeat the point, religion and/or culture is no defence in the courts of England and Wales. MGM is undoubtedly illegal in the UK (James Chegwidden), a regrettable relic from 5,000+ years ago, and needs to end. We cannot say we live in a civilized society until we stop the mutilations of baby boys’ genitals on the grounds of religion or cuture.

          I assume you cannot have watched the ‘Global Survey of Circumcision Harm’ video. Perhaps you should delay contributing further to this comments stream, until you have?

          • Mike, if you think Jews are going to lay down and die like last time, you’ll have another thing coming.

            There are loads of medical professionals and studies about circumcision; to claim that it is a settled issue and you’re full steam ahead on official persecution of Jews is a hell of a step. I hope you’re sure.

          • Yeah, because telling people they can’t cut healthy functioning body-parts off children too young to consent or understand what they are losing, is really persecuting them isn’t it. Get a grip.

          • Tossing people in jail and taking away children might be confused for persecution when they’ve been legally allowed to do it for centuries and most doctors don’t have a problem with it.

            You get a grip, you want to outlaw Judaism over an overwhelmingly harmless medical procedure. There’s a reason it’s been legal for centuries. This is like the 9/11 truther movement of the alt right.

          • Nobody wants to outlaw Judaism. Are you saying that those who have rejected the Bris are no longer Jews?

          • Unless the boys gets himself circumcised when he comes of age he is cut off from his people! In other words he ceases on being a Jew. No longer a MOTT!

          • Big deal, a minority of Jews! The kid is no longer a Jew if he doesn’t get circumcised when he comes of age. I had to supply my boys circumcision certificates to get them into their Hebrew Day School.

          • Well done you! I hope you’re pleased with yourself for removing choice from your children. But thank you for confirming that genital cutting is nothing but a tribal branding, committed against those too young to consent, or understand what they are losing. This is all just your own wound speaking isn’t it.

          • Dude, even if I wasn’t Jewish I would be circumcised and my boys would be circumcised. Just like my peers, cousins, brothers, nephews etc….I have never known an uncircumcised male.

          • I live in a beach city where everyone is white and have never seen an uncut male at the country club or our yacht club. Sorry no uncut animals here.

          • Is that what you do to get off? I am sure you see more than a few Rumple Foreskins in the UK! Disgusting country……Socialism at its worst! Soon you will be a Muslim state and will have to become a Muslim…..LMFAO! No great loss, you have shitty food and support the “Royals” which is a total fucking joke in it’s self!

          • Ok .000001% are against it! They cut their son’s from circumcision. My boys attend a Hebrew Day School and we had to produce a copy of their Bris (circumcision) Certificates for registration.

          • That is correct! If the parents fail to have their son circumcised and he fails to have it done when he reaches age……he is cut off from his people. So Taco, you have no clue about shit!

          • “This is like the 9/11 truther movement of the alt right.”

            You’re deranged. Baby boys and boys have no political affiliation. This is not a left-right issue, it’s a human rights issue.

            Yours,
            Lefty.

          • ‘Mike, if you think Jews are going to lay down and die like last time…’.

            What on earth are you talking about? I’m asking for very little, that people who mutilate the genitals of male miinors for non-therapeutic reasons cease doing so. I’m not asking Jews or anyone else to ‘lay down and die’.

            Nowhere in your comments is there the slightest recognition of the human rights of minors, as (supposedly) protected by Articles of UN and EU conventions – I suggest you read the details in the notes of James Chegwidden’s talk.

            I take it you still haven’t bothered to devote less than 50 minutes of your life to watching the video of the ‘Global Survey of Circumcision Harm’?

          • Give me strength. In many areas right and wrong are deeply subjective – MGM being a classic example – which is why we need the law to resolve matters. You’ll have seen from the Chegwidden talk that MGM is already illegal in the UK, so the practitioners are by definition carrying out criminal acts.

            If you believe killing homosexuals / adulterers / apostates (take your pick) is ‘right’, the state shouldn’t interfere with that? If you think FGM is ‘right’, likewise? The state is VERY interested in the mutilation of female minors’ genitals – quite rightly – but like you, sees male minors as sub-human, and the mutilation of THEIR genitals as a matter of no concern.

            Walking down the street, I can’t tell if a boy or a man is Jewish, Muslim, or neither. Wouldn’t it be easier if you simply carved a big ‘J’ or ‘M’ on their foreheads shortly after birth, to clarify matters?

          • “Neither do most doctors, key point.”
            False. Most medical associations around the world consider the practice to be completely unnecessary medically.

          • It’s self-evidently mutilation, regardless of whether you (or most doctors) ‘see’ it as such, or not. The education of medical students about the biological role of the foreskin, and why non-therapeutic circumcision of male minors should end, is close to non-existent. In countries where there is good education of doctors on this issue, e.g. Finland, MGM is close to non-existent.

            From William Collins’s article (link in my own):

            Medical rejection of the claimed benefits and recognition of the harm

            Authoritative medical bodies around the world have come out against any general medical benefit from circumcision. For example,

            The Royal Australasian College of Physicians (2010): “After reviewing the currently available evidence, the RACP believes that the frequency of diseases modifiable by circumcision, the level of protection offered by circumcision and the complication rates of circumcision, do not warrant routine infant circumcision in Australia and New Zealand.”

            The RACP, Australian Association of Paediatric Surgeons, New Zealand Society of Paediatric Surgeons, Urological Society of Australasia, Royal Australasian College of Surgeons, and Paediatric Society of New Zealand have corroborated the Canadian Paediatric Society (2004), declaring that circumcision of newborn males should not be routinely performed. The statement firmly declares: “There are no medical indications for routine male circumcision.”

            Canadian Paediatric Society (1996): “The overall evidence of the benefits and harms of circumcision is so evenly balanced that it does not support recommending circumcision as a routine procedure for newborns.” Note that the cost-benefit analysis in this Canadian report ignored diminished sexual function, probably the most serious effect of circumcision.

            The Central Union for Child Welfare, Finland (2003): “Circumcision of boys that violates the personal integrity of the boys is not acceptable unless it is done for medical reasons to treat an illness. The basis for the measures of a society must be an unconditional respect for the bodily integrity of an under-aged person. Circumcision intervenes in the sexual integrity of a male child causing a permanent change in organs and has consequences pertaining to both health and quality of life. The circumcision of girls is rightly considered as inhuman mutilation of the genitals and is punished abuse. Also boys must be guaranteed a similar protection by law. According to the opinion of the Central Union for Child Welfare in Finland nobody has the right, on behalf of the child, to consent to operation, violating the bodily integrity of the child, if it is not done to treat an illness.“

            The Royal Dutch Medical Society (2010): “There is no convincing evidence that circumcision is useful or necessary in terms of prevention or hygiene. Partly in the light of the complications which can arise during or after circumcision, circumcision is not justifiable except on medical/therapeutic grounds. Non-therapeutic circumcision of male minors is contrary to the rule that minors may only be exposed to medical treatments if illness or abnormalities are present, or if it can be convincingly demonstrated that the medical intervention is in the interest of the child, as in the case of vaccinations. Non-therapeutic circumcision of male minors conflicts with the child’s right to autonomy and physical integrity. There are good reasons for a legal prohibition of non-therapeutic circumcision of male minors, as exists for female genital mutilation.”

            British Medical Association (2006): “In the past, circumcision of boys has been considered to be either medically or socially beneficial or, at least, neutral. The general perception has been that no significant harm was caused to the child and therefore with appropriate consent it could be carried out. The medical benefits previously claimed, however, have not been convincingly proven, and it is now widely accepted, including by the BMA, that this surgical procedure has medical and psychological risks. It is essential that doctors perform male circumcision only where this is demonstrably in the best interests of the child.”

            The British Association of Paediatric Surgeons advises that “there is rarely a clinical indication for circumcision.”

            American Academy of Family Physicians (2002) emphasizes the lack of therapeutic benefit and likens neonatal circumcision to a “cosmetic” procedure and expresses ethical concerns about non-therapeutic neonatal circumcision.

            The American Medical Association (1999) has called for the re-training of American physicians and improved information to parents in hopes of reducing the unacceptably high rate of non-therapeutic neonatal circumcision.

            United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (1989) states that children have a right to grow up free of traditional practices that are prejudicial to health.

            Doctors Opposing Circumcision web site states, The claims of “potential benefits”, allegedly provided by medically unnecessary, non-therapeutic circumcision, lack any real support from medical science…. American medical societies…..have not recognized the long-term adverse effects reported…..Removal of the nerves of the foreskin by circumcision produces a deficit in sensory input into the central, parasympathetic, and sympathetic nervous systems. One, therefore, would expect to find alteration in sexual response. Several recent studies have found this to be the case.

          • Read some of your own quotes Mike! Not recommending as a routine procedure is still saying it can be safely done. FYI the AMA link I posted is from 2012, the 1999 quote has been superseded by new studies the 2012 paper recommends.

            I did misspeak on one point in that most doctors don’t OPPOSE circumcision as compared to “support”. That is because they find that there just isn’t the evidence to support anything like a ban. Most doctors don’t support a ban, so either most doctors can’t accept the “self evident” or that the anti-circumcision case isn’t all that persuasive to actual experts.

            If you have your way you’ll end up destroying families and tossing decent people in jail on an iffy proposition. This is a fact. I believe your motives are pure, but it doesn’t change the fact that the net result will be exactly the kind of thing you excoriate on J4MB.

          • This comment section is filled with anti-circumcision fanatics who just spread misinformation.

          • I have literally seen this spammed by different usernames and many doctors do not oppose it, circumision is just foreign to them. By the way, a lot of info there is wrong and not proven.

          • “I’m taking about right and wrong and the danger of inviting the state deeper and deeper into family life.”
            That’s an argument to stop the state from enforcing laws against foot binding and child marriage.

          • Nope. Foot binding is not a part of any religion. Child marriage is not mandatory in any religion. FGM, though widely practiced in the Muslim world, is not in the Koran, the Sunna, or the Hadith.

            Circumcision is.

            I replied elsewhere to you with medical information from the AMA and the American Academy of Pediatrics.

          • From the William Collins article:

            “The American Medical Association (1999) has called for the re-training of American physicians and improved information to parents in hopes of reducing the unacceptably high rate of non-therapeutic neonatal circumcision.”

          • Religion is a man made invention. I can make a religion tomorrow and one of its commandments could be sacrificing girls on stone slabs during the equinox. Will I be allowed religious freedom? No, because my religion is new and only has one or two subscribers. But if it’s an OLD religion and has millions of subscribers, then apparently we should allow them a special pass.

          • “There are loads of medical professionals and studies about circumcision;”
            Please cite some that are not advocacy research.

          • Are you really incapable of seeing the utter fallacy of the claimed potential ‘benefits’ in those links? For a start, the claimed slightly lower transmission rates of STDs and HIV; This is referring to sexually active ADULTS! If you think your baby is at risk of catching and spreading an STD then you go straight to the police. And anyway, those ‘studies’ have been thoroughly debunked many times over. Penile cancer, similarly, only effects older men, and has a very successful rate of treatment and recovery. Only the claimed, slightly reduced risk of UTIs is relevant to an infant, and this claim is highly contested, with infections often resulting from the actions of doctors and parents, who have no idea about the normal, intact, penis, forcibly retracting the prepuce. Besides, little girls have much higher rates of UTIs than boys, so would you advocate the pruning of all those extra flaps and folds of tissue that can harbour germs from girls genitalia? Furthermore, nowhere in those links is there a recognition of what the boy will be losing; the foreskin as absolutely integral to the normal functioning of the penis, but I suspect most of those sponsoring and conducting these ‘studies’ would know nothing about that.The desperation of the cutters trying to justify their sordid obsession is intellectually and morally bankrupt.

          • Since the WHO are a part of the United Nations, they should not be considered impartial. Right up to the top of that organisation, they are gynocentric at best, misandric at worst. (Example: the Secretary General’s “campaign to end violence against women” in a world where men suffer most violence .. why not “end violence against everyone”?)

            The WHO once defined all circumcision as genital mutilation but the UN applied pressure and their current definition is that only female circumcision is genital mutilation, whereas ANY kind of genital mutilation on males (even Type IV, or castration) is ‘circumcision’. The UK’s NHS echo this; they also define any genital damage as circumcision and feel no requirement to protect male genitals.

        • People disobey the laws on FGM. Do you think we should legalise it therefore? Human Rights as in the Human Right to bodily integrity and genital autonomy, recognised by the UN as such. The Basic Human Right for an individual to decide for himself how much of his healthy genitalia he would like to keep. No one here wants to ban circumcision, rather they want to ban forcing it upon people. The State already is against teaching children Men’s Rights, hence the continuation of MGM, and this is wrong. ‘Enlightened’ as in breaking-free from religious dogma, and privileging Reason over tribal insecurities and the claimed ‘word’ of somebody’s imaginary sky fairy. ‘Civilised’ as in recognising the Human Rights of others. When a boy becomes a man he can decide for himself if he needs to lose part of his body for his faith, but of course you know that there will be hardly any takers, which is why you need to force it on children.

          • FGM /= Circumcision

            Look village atheism arguments as support for the anti circumcision movement is just silly.

            Your strongest arguments center around health. I don’t find them persuasive but stick to that.

          • And what could be more ‘bitchy’ and ‘superior’ than assuming you can tell others what arguments they may put forward. You don’t have a leg to stand on, and it shows that you know this, because you have answered not one of the points put to you. Just hysterical paranoid rantings punctuated by an alarming sense of entitlement to act outside the law. See?

        • Religion was invented long before the concept of equal rights for men and women was conceived. Unsurprisingly, our legislators continue to bury their neck in the sand in respect of equal rights to genital integrity. They live in the past when it suits them.

        • “I don’t get to decide what Judaism is nor do any “enlightened” so called persons.”
          No, but they do get to decide what is legal and illegal in their own society.

      • There is no increase! Very few Jews consider that BS! The Kid is not a Jew! If the kid is not circumcised and he does not get circumcised himself when he comes of age he is cut off from his people! He no longer is considered a Jew! You idiots have no clue! I have 3 boys (under 8) and I would cut them off if they didn’t have my future grandson’s circumcised!

        • Then you are a pervert with zero respect for your own children. How about letting them decide for themselves if they want to be a Jew or not when they’re capable of understanding such concepts? Instead of cruelly carving YOUR religion into their most intimate body parts, forever depriving them of a normal sex life, just to make yourself feel better about your own wound. Disgusting, fucked-up, behaviour.

          • Fuck Off! I bet you are one fucked up uncut homosexual! If I wasn’t Jewish they would still be circumcised! Being uncircumcised is DISGUSTING!

          • So you think being normal is disgusting? You think children should have their genitals pruned so that you find them attractive? That rage is your wound talking. You are a perfect example of the psychological damage done by genital mutilation. But don’t be mad at me, I didn’t cut your dick when you were too small and helpless to defend yourself. Be mad at the monsters who did it.

          • I would have been pissed if I wasn’t circumcised. I have never known any guy that was uncut. Being uncircumcised is subhuman……….

          • There was somebody who said Jews were subhuman.
            You sound a lot like him.
            I wonder why that is, and if your parents would be proud to hear you speak that way, little Adolph.

          • Everyone who has a foreskin is homosexual.
            Trump is a God who understands the downtrodden white man.
            My kids will thank me for chopping off the best parts of their penises.
            The white circumcision rate is approaching 100%.
            We all believe you, yachty. You are so easy to parody.
            Here’s a little fire for you, scarecrow.
            This may show you how naive you are, and how racist.
            The rest of the world is laughing at your stupidity, and the stupidity of the people you keep company with.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WymyNyQoAxU

          • Dude you are in your sixties and your family has a history of living into their 70’s….you better go out and live some life before you kick it!

          • BTW- All boys at their school are circumcised! You have to submit a copy of their Bris (circumcision) Certificate at registration!

          • Here in the USA it has nothing to do with religion. 80% of white baby boys are circumcised everyday…….

          • So, Don’t push your UK BS on your kids also no christian BS! Perhaps they will just be Muslim, may help when your country turns into a Muslim state!

      • No they are not! You are so full of English BS! Stay in the UK with your pathetic uncut penis! No white American woman would even get close to that nasty anteater! You are pure Eurotrash!

    • “That being said, are you really willing to start arresting Jewish people wholesale and separating babies from their parents? Because that is what it will take.”

      YES. A THOUSAND TIMES, YES. If that’s what it would take to stop parents (Jewish or otherwise) carving their religion into the genitals of their baby boys, so be it. A small price to pay to end these human rights assaults on minors who – by definition – cannot give consent.

    • If their faith is so WEAK that it requires branding infants like cattle, otherwise it would just disappear… then good riddance.

      • Doesn’t work like that. And I assume by good riddance you mean official persecution of Jews? Because you know better?

        • Why, yes, I do know better than to mutilate a child’s genitals!

          By the way, do you have anything to say about the “persecution” of those who wish to cut their daughters in name of tradition or religion? Why is their custom less valid than the Jews’ custom? Do you support their freedom to mutilate children as well, or are you a hypocrite?

          • Not in the Koran. Not in the Sunna. Not in the Hadith. Not the same thing at all as FGM.

            It’s less valid because it is more analogous to cutting off the entire penis, and no religion on earth requires it. If you guys have your way you are going to end up destroying families and imprisoning decent people over crank science.

            Look up the AMA position, I’ve posted it elsewhere.

          • You’ve come out with the classic argument, conflating all FGM with clitoridectomy. There are four types of FGM recognized by WHO, plus some sub-types, and even clitoridectomy (type 1b) isn’t the equivalent to ‘cutting off the entire penis’, because most of the clitoris is internal. You need to read the linked paper by the Oxford ethicist Brian D Earp on the equivalence (ethical and otherwise) of MGM and FGM. In physical consequences terms MGM is directly equivalent to two forms of FGM.

          • And how can an 8 day old boy decide whether he wants to join your religion? To the point he’s willing to sacrifice an extremely important part of his body for it? You really do see this as a tribal branding don’t you, committed against boys before they are big enough to fight back, and that is disgusting.

          • So you can’t tell the difference between buying a child a Christmas present, and mutilating his genitalia? Sicko.

          • Still shoving a BS religion unto your children. At least Judaism is true and pure. We also instill education and wealth as important goals.

          • You ‘instill (sic) education’ lol. Yet you can’t even spell. Brainwashing and greed, oh, and as per your other post, the idea that all other people are subhuman. Well done you. Sicko.

    • “You can’t ban circumcision without banning the Jewish religion. That’s it.”
      This is Europe, nit the Middle East. Different moral norms, different social standards. And in Europe the social standards that enshrine religious freedom as the Enlightenment values of self-determination and individual autonomy. Mutilating the genitals of a child who cannot possibly consent contravenes those values. So how is it defensible to ask to have those same protections for religious choice?

      • Not mutilation, and we subject children to medical procedures that have risks (vaccination, etc.), all the time without their consent. We do a risk benefit analysis and make a decision.

          • So you think that little children’s genitalia should be pruned to accord with your personal tastes. Any idea how perverted that sounds?

          • It is proper hygiene/grooming. It is the proper way for a male to be. Uncircumcised is filthy, nasty and ugly. I personally do not know any parent that has not had their son(s) circumcised.

          • You probably then know no parent who has a whole penis. They are compelled to convince themselves of this rubbish about hygiene (don’t you guys wash?) because otherwise they would have to face up to the reality of their own abuse. The victim becomes the perpetrator, the perfect crime.

          • Such anti-BS! I shower twice a day. It is as simple as proper grooming! You Eurotrash have no clue!

          • So, if you shower anyway, what’s the point of chopping off body-parts? You are a perfect example of the psychological damage done by forced genital cutting, desperately trying to convince yourself that there must be some ‘benefits’ to your abuse.

          • Please,
            Our medical books do not even show foreskins! It is a few minutes of discomfort for a lifetime of benefits. This is America, not some Eurotrash state! The only reason our rates went down here are all the damn Mexicans and those animals do not circumcise.
            Just think, you will be a Muslim state soon and no one will care!

          • and you will be living under a Democrat soon, and have to give up all your racist rantings, as the memory of the scar that is Trump fades from the landscape.

          • TRUMP 2016! Hillary will never win, Trump is in the lead according to the new CNN Poll. Screw Hillary and the Nigger….both should be arrested!

          • just because you don’t get out much, is not a reason that the rest of us should subject our children to genital partial amputation, which is not in their best interests.
            let me explain.
            you like the feelings you get from your penis, right?
            would you like to feel more, or less?
            cutting off a piece means you get to feel less.
            the nerves which would have been sending fantastic sensations to your brain are no longer attached.
            by definition, you are feeling less than the design of your body meant you to.
            but don’t believe me. believe Maimonides, the wisest physician of all time, and a mohel.
            ” The fact that circumcision weakens the faculty of sexual excitement and sometimes perhaps diminishes the pleasure is indubitable. For if at birth this member has been made to bleed and has had its covering taken away from it, it must indubitably be weakened. The Sages, may their memory be blessed, have explicitly stated: It is hard for a woman with whom an uncircumcised man has had sexual intercourse to separate from him. In my opinion this is the strongest of the reasons for circumcision.”

          • Considering I have 3 homes I do get around. I am married and have 3 boys from 8 and down. I am circumcised as well as my boys, brothers, nephews, father, father-in-law, friends and peers.

          • As if I would be seen with an uncircumcised son in the locker room. People would talk and that won’t happen! You may as well drive some cheap Asian car!

          • No, but my yacht club would be talking! come on everyone of my family and friends attended my boy’s circumcisions. they were all large catered events.

          • the 70% of the world which understands what a foreskin is for.
            it is to heighten sexual pleasure, and make sex more comfortable for both partners.
            but you wouldn’t know anything about that, would you?
            just like you wouldn’t know anything about how not to insult the rest of the planet which exists outside of the USA.

        • No risk/benefit analysis would conclude that MGM should be carried out on medical grounds. If it did, there would eb a case for extending MGM to all male minors in the UK, and I don’t see anyone arguing for that. I refer you to the long list I posted in one of my comments earlier, of national medical assiociations that are against MGM.

          Two months ago I was interviewed on BBC radio along with Dr Simon Hochhauser of Milah UK, the organization that promotes circumcision of male minors in the UK:

          https://vimeo.com/153617017

          Pressed on the matter several times, Dr Hochhauser was perfectly clear that the case for MGM doesn’t rest on medical considerations, but religious ones. I can only assume that he and his organization have accepted that there is no medical case for MGM that justifies the risks associated with the procedure. Of course he didn’t give a damn about the human rights of the male minors permanently affected by the procedure.

          • Again, not “no risk/analysis” the AMA link is from 2012.

            Of course it’s religious, that doesn’t change the fact the AMA and the AAP still think it’s safe and why circumcision is still legal throughout the Western world.

          • Have you read NONE of the article? MGM is illegal in the UK (and, I’m told, the US, Canada, and other countries) but the criminal justice systems don’t prosecute. Read the Chegwidden notes, top of the first page. (In the UK the Crown never prosecutes women for paternity fraud, either, even when it has cast-iron evidence of the frauds.)

            The fact that MGM is continuing in so many countries has NOTHING to do with the AMA or AAP, it has everything to do with the empathy gap.

    • MGM troll. If you think putting steel to a boy and putting steel to a girl are fundamentally different you are mentally ill and should seek psychiatric help.

      • You know, it’s funny that you guys want to ban Judaism over a procedure the vast majority of doctors think is safe and harmless, but I’m the crazy one.

        But hey, you get to round up religious Jews and throw ’em in jail, couldn’t be a hidden motive in that.

    • Jewish people can use a milder form of circumcision. The one they started off with. The circumcision they use now is a result of Jewish elders attempting to stop themselves from assimilating into Greek culture.

    • No, it will not require any more than simply outlawing the practice and prosecuting doctors or practitioners who agree to perform genital cutting on any infant when there are no medical justifications. It should never be a requirement of any religion to have ones genitals interfered with and mutilated.

      I have nothing against the Jewish. And “circumcision” has little to do with the Jewish any way because the vast majority of these mutilations are done here in Australia under the fraudulent guise of “preventative medicine”…when the claims of long term health benefits are so absurd as to be laughable.

      Females have FOUR TIMES the incidence of UTIs and suffer many of the diseases and infections that “circumcision” claims to reduce or prevent. Do we “circumcise” girls as well? No because it is illegal and you will go to prison if you sexually assault a baby girl. Why should sexually assaulting a baby boy be treated any differently?

      “Circumcision” is SEXUAL ASSAULT. It’s that simple.

      • To strengthen my argument, I could bring abortion into this discussion.

        On one hand, most people will argue that a woman has a right to control what happens to her body and thus justify preserving safe and legal access to abortion.

        Why shouldn’t a man have the right to decide what happens to his penis? If women have the right to bodily autonomy with regard to what happens to their genitals, then why should we set different rules for men and deny them the same rights?

        To deny men the same rights is the height of stupidity, hypocrisy, and arrogance.

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